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If Ukrainian statistics are to believed [1], Russia has lost 3500 troops in the past 2 days. That's almost as many as the US lost in Iraq since 2003. Let that s

by nomilk 5y ago

If Ukrainian statistics are to believed [1], Russia has lost 3500 troops in the past 2 days. That's almost as many as the US lost in Iraq since 2003. Let that sink in. Another thing, is that reports from Washington Post [2] suggest most of the 102 Russian tanks popped by Ukraine have been T-72's: although modernised, the T-72 is a 48 year old design (!!). What does this say about Putin's plans for soaking up Javelin fire - perhaps he's not wasting his best tanks. Possibly militarily sound, but wow - the human cost.. If this information is correct, it's no wonder Russia is shutting down social media to stem the flow of info back home. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60517447?pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:6feb197c-9473-44eb-a42f-088d9c12d6ee https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60517447?pinned_p... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/02/24/ukraine-russia-weapons/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/02/24/...

pjmlp 5y ago
As I mentioned in another thread, when leaders no longer ride alongside their officers into the battlefield, this kid of human cost is what happens, decided between a couple of tea cups.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Zelensky is riding alongside his officers into battle.
  - smcl 5y ago
    Right, I don't know a great deal about the guy but his response to a US offer of evacuation was pretty impressive: "The fight is here; I need ammunition, not a ride"
    - aix1 5y ago
      It's also quite incredible to see how _everyone_ has rallied around him, regardless of their political preferences in normal times.
      - 1_player 5y ago
        Superhero media has been trendy for a while now, and now there's a real life leader and real life fight for liberty against a supervillain. It's quite uncanny, but among all this senseless massacre I find there is something immensely beautiful and human in people all over the world united towards the same ideal, even if we're safe in our houses and they're dying under the bombs. "The next war will be livestreamed" has been a common meme intended in the negative sense, but to me there might be something positive about it being shown raw, in real time what kind of absolute hell war is, from your next door Tiktoker. I also expect worldwide catharsis when this fucking war ends, hopefully a small moment of hope and respite for humanity as a whole. We've been needing that.
        jacquesm 5y ago
        It also carries a danger. My grandmother lived through WWII in a very conscious way, and to her death many decades later she would not so much as look at anybody from Germany, that ran extremely deep. And she was the most gentle person you can imagine, but not on that front. By exposing the whole world to what is happening here in real time you pretty much guarantee that Russia as a country will be isolated for years to come, which in and of itself carries risks.
        1_player 5y ago
        Very true, though the public opinion seems to be overwhelmingly against the Russian government, while being sympathetic to the Russian civilians, recognising they're being lied to, brainwashed, and don't care for this war either.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Yep, my point was more from the other side in this case, although it was also a bit generic. All the best for the resistance.
kilroy123 5y ago
I'm highly skeptical about these numbers. I think it will be some time before we get a realistic picture of what is happening.
- TheFreim 5y ago
  Agreed. People are quick to call out Russian propaganda when it obviously exists on both sides (it's a war after all).
  - aix1 5y ago
    According Alexey Arestovich (a military advisor to the office of the Ukrainian president), the 3500 figure includes killed AND wounded. This was clarified in a comment thread on his Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/alexey.arestovich https://www.facebook.com/alexey.arestovich edit: https://imgur.com/a/jnu3yUn https://imgur.com/a/jnu3yUn
    - nomilk 5y ago
      If that's correct, it's quite a big deal. Both the BBC and Wikipedia have very clearly "3500 killed". See here under the section 'Casualties and losses': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukrai...
      - aix1 5y ago
        I obviously don't have any data of my own, but Arestovich is one of the people who deliver military briefings to the nation on behalf of the Ukrainian President's office[1]. I have the greatest respect for both Wikipedia and the BBC, but it's almost certain that their reporting is downstream of his and therefore more likely to be inaccurate. (But yes, that's a huge discrepancy.) [1] https://www.facebook.com/president.gov.ua/videos/372669011355932 https://www.facebook.com/president.gov.ua/videos/37266901135...
      - hotz 5y ago
        Wikipedia isn't a credible source though. The takeaway from the last 2 years is that you can't trust the media. It's all propaganda and lies. Unbiased, objective news died a long time ago if it ever existed.
Simon321 5y ago
> As of July 19, 2021, according to the U.S. Department of Defense casualty website, there were 4,431 total deaths in Iraq (US troops). >The number of United States troops who have died fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan had passed 7,000 at the end of 2019. Still seems to be a lot, not sure if that number from Ukraine includes captives as well.
- nomilk 5y ago
  Regarding captives, Ukraine claims they've captured 200. Here's the full quote. Note that while it comes via the BBC, it's merely taken from an official Ukrainian facebook page [1]: > The Ukrainian military has published what they claim is a breakout of Russia's losses. According to a post on its Facebook page, more than 3,500 Russian soldiers involved in the invasion have been killed and almost 200 taken prisoner. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60517447?pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:6feb197c-9473-44eb-a42f-088d9c12d6ee https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60517447?pinned_p...
  - aix1 5y ago
    As I pointed out elsewhere in this thread, there may be some misunderstanding/misreporting going on. According to Alexey Arestovich (a military advisor to the office of the Ukrainian president), the 3500 includes both killed AND wounded.
    - baybal2 5y ago
      Wounded POWs are included as POW
DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
> Russia has lost 3500 troops in the past 2 days. Russia had some trouble[1] recruiting for this mission. Pay is a joke, and they had to hire a bunch of aging convicts with nowhere else to go: >> Two Meduza sources referred to the formations taking shape in the “people’s republics” as “Dirlewanger brigades,” because they actively enlist former inmates. “Those [joining up] in Luhansk were in prison,” said an individual personally acquainted with members of the new unit. “And then suddenly they turned up in this detachment. They’re real criminals, and besides that they’re no spring chickens [aged 45 and up].” it gets worse: >> Indeed, Meduza’s sources believe that those who accepted the recruiters’ offers likely have a rather low level of training. “All the rest are [on combat trips] in Africa or in the sands [Syria],” explained a Russian security agency veteran familiar with the recruitment campaign. “Nobody’s raring to go to the ‘field of spoil tips’ [the Donbas].” >> “They just don’t want to go there, because there’s a regular army [the Ukrainian Armed Forces]: it’s difficult to fight against it,” said a former Wagner Group mercenary. “If there’s a regular army, there will be big losses.” There is another[2] recent article that suggests Russians aren't going to Donbas/Luhansk voluntarily. If so it could explain the losses and shocking morale. ________ [1] A road to nowhere Russian recruiters are mobilizing mercenaries for a ‘trip to the Donbas.’ What they’re expected to do there remains unclear. https://meduza.io/en/feature/2021/12/23/a-road-to-nowhere https://meduza.io/en/feature/2021/12/23/a-road-to-nowhere [2] ‘I’m panicking — where is my child?’ Conscript soldiers are being sent to fight against Ukraine, their relatives say. Here’s what their families told Meduza. https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/02/26/i-m-panicking-where-is-my-child https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/02/26/i-m-panicking-where-...
- foverzar 5y ago
  It's worth noting that Meduza is an extremely opinionated (and thus biased) source.
  - DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
    that is important yes. Navalny is a populist. In light of a totally absent opposition all counter arguments that go against a dictator are by definition biased.
DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
I am actually trying to find a source for your claim for the 3500 lost troops over the past 2 days. Do you have any? thanks

by nomilk 5y ago

pjmlp 5y ago

As I mentioned in another thread, when leaders no longer ride alongside their officers into the battlefield, this kid of human cost is what happens, decided between a couple of tea cups.

jacquesm 5y ago
Zelensky is riding alongside his officers into battle.
- smcl 5y ago
  Right, I don't know a great deal about the guy but his response to a US offer of evacuation was pretty impressive: "The fight is here; I need ammunition, not a ride"
  - aix1 5y ago
    It's also quite incredible to see how _everyone_ has rallied around him, regardless of their political preferences in normal times.
    - 1_player 5y ago
      Superhero media has been trendy for a while now, and now there's a real life leader and real life fight for liberty against a supervillain. It's quite uncanny, but among all this senseless massacre I find there is something immensely beautiful and human in people all over the world united towards the same ideal, even if we're safe in our houses and they're dying under the bombs. "The next war will be livestreamed" has been a common meme intended in the negative sense, but to me there might be something positive about it being shown raw, in real time what kind of absolute hell war is, from your next door Tiktoker. I also expect worldwide catharsis when this fucking war ends, hopefully a small moment of hope and respite for humanity as a whole. We've been needing that.
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        It also carries a danger. My grandmother lived through WWII in a very conscious way, and to her death many decades later she would not so much as look at anybody from Germany, that ran extremely deep. And she was the most gentle person you can imagine, but not on that front. By exposing the whole world to what is happening here in real time you pretty much guarantee that Russia as a country will be isolated for years to come, which in and of itself carries risks.
        1_player 5y ago
        Very true, though the public opinion seems to be overwhelmingly against the Russian government, while being sympathetic to the Russian civilians, recognising they're being lied to, brainwashed, and don't care for this war either.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Yep, my point was more from the other side in this case, although it was also a bit generic. All the best for the resistance.

kilroy123 5y ago

I'm highly skeptical about these numbers. I think it will be some time before we get a realistic picture of what is happening.

TheFreim 5y ago
Agreed. People are quick to call out Russian propaganda when it obviously exists on both sides (it's a war after all).
- aix1 5y ago
  According Alexey Arestovich (a military advisor to the office of the Ukrainian president), the 3500 figure includes killed AND wounded. This was clarified in a comment thread on his Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/alexey.arestovich https://www.facebook.com/alexey.arestovich edit: https://imgur.com/a/jnu3yUn https://imgur.com/a/jnu3yUn
  - nomilk 5y ago
    If that's correct, it's quite a big deal. Both the BBC and Wikipedia have very clearly "3500 killed". See here under the section 'Casualties and losses': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukrai...
    - aix1 5y ago
      I obviously don't have any data of my own, but Arestovich is one of the people who deliver military briefings to the nation on behalf of the Ukrainian President's office[1]. I have the greatest respect for both Wikipedia and the BBC, but it's almost certain that their reporting is downstream of his and therefore more likely to be inaccurate. (But yes, that's a huge discrepancy.) [1] https://www.facebook.com/president.gov.ua/videos/372669011355932 https://www.facebook.com/president.gov.ua/videos/37266901135...
    - hotz 5y ago
      Wikipedia isn't a credible source though. The takeaway from the last 2 years is that you can't trust the media. It's all propaganda and lies. Unbiased, objective news died a long time ago if it ever existed.

Simon321 5y ago

> As of July 19, 2021, according to the U.S. Department of Defense casualty website, there were 4,431 total deaths in Iraq (US troops). >The number of United States troops who have died fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan had passed 7,000 at the end of 2019. Still seems to be a lot, not sure if that number from Ukraine includes captives as well.

nomilk 5y ago
Regarding captives, Ukraine claims they've captured 200. Here's the full quote. Note that while it comes via the BBC, it's merely taken from an official Ukrainian facebook page [1]: > The Ukrainian military has published what they claim is a breakout of Russia's losses. According to a post on its Facebook page, more than 3,500 Russian soldiers involved in the invasion have been killed and almost 200 taken prisoner. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60517447?pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:6feb197c-9473-44eb-a42f-088d9c12d6ee https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60517447?pinned_p...
- aix1 5y ago
  As I pointed out elsewhere in this thread, there may be some misunderstanding/misreporting going on. According to Alexey Arestovich (a military advisor to the office of the Ukrainian president), the 3500 includes both killed AND wounded.
  - baybal2 5y ago
    Wounded POWs are included as POW

DyslexicAtheist 5y ago

> Russia has lost 3500 troops in the past 2 days. Russia had some trouble[1] recruiting for this mission. Pay is a joke, and they had to hire a bunch of aging convicts with nowhere else to go: >> Two Meduza sources referred to the formations taking shape in the “people’s republics” as “Dirlewanger brigades,” because they actively enlist former inmates. “Those [joining up] in Luhansk were in prison,” said an individual personally acquainted with members of the new unit. “And then suddenly they turned up in this detachment. They’re real criminals, and besides that they’re no spring chickens [aged 45 and up].” it gets worse: >> Indeed, Meduza’s sources believe that those who accepted the recruiters’ offers likely have a rather low level of training. “All the rest are [on combat trips] in Africa or in the sands [Syria],” explained a Russian security agency veteran familiar with the recruitment campaign. “Nobody’s raring to go to the ‘field of spoil tips’ [the Donbas].” >> “They just don’t want to go there, because there’s a regular army [the Ukrainian Armed Forces]: it’s difficult to fight against it,” said a former Wagner Group mercenary. “If there’s a regular army, there will be big losses.” There is another[2] recent article that suggests Russians aren't going to Donbas/Luhansk voluntarily. If so it could explain the losses and shocking morale. ________ [1] A road to nowhere Russian recruiters are mobilizing mercenaries for a ‘trip to the Donbas.’ What they’re expected to do there remains unclear. https://meduza.io/en/feature/2021/12/23/a-road-to-nowhere https://meduza.io/en/feature/2021/12/23/a-road-to-nowhere [2] ‘I’m panicking — where is my child?’ Conscript soldiers are being sent to fight against Ukraine, their relatives say. Here’s what their families told Meduza. https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/02/26/i-m-panicking-where-is-my-child https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/02/26/i-m-panicking-where-...

foverzar 5y ago
It's worth noting that Meduza is an extremely opinionated (and thus biased) source.
- DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
  that is important yes. Navalny is a populist. In light of a totally absent opposition all counter arguments that go against a dictator are by definition biased.

DyslexicAtheist 5y ago

I am actually trying to find a source for your claim for the 3500 lost troops over the past 2 days. Do you have any? thanks