5 ms·

So what do our governments need to do to prevent a war? Go back to the Soviet years and let Russia claim all of it's former territory?

thesz 5y ago
I think I should point out that you are talking about preventing ongoing war. It is just not possible to prevent harm that was and is being done. I politely withdraw myself from answering your second question. It is too inflammatory. I still think that it is possible for governments to learn - they are people, just like us, - and I think it is not only Russian government who can learn from this situation. I should thank you - (non-)answering your questions made me think by standing in your shoes. It is interesting and important experience.
- koonsolo 5y ago
  Thank you for your civil response, and my apologies for my rude response. I will ask another more genuine question (it's a real question that I have). If Russia would have a more democratically elected leader (let's just say Navalny for the sake of argument). Would the ties between EU and Russia be more collaborative, or do you still think this would have ended with a war? In other words, is NATO really out to destroy a democratic Russia (Soviet Union is already long gone)?
  - thesz 5y ago
    I think that boils down to whether concerns of Putin would be "more heard" if they were expressed by different person. From my point of view, some of these concerns were quite important for, let's say, viability of Russia as country with a pinch of independence. I rephrase. If Russia wants some independence in its decisions from external influence(#), the concerns raised by Putin are valid whoever is the leader of Russia. I think it is unfortunate if the acceptance of these concerns depends on the person expressing them. Moreso, I think it is unrealistic to expect that different person would express same concerns and get different results without exchange of some other important pieces. In other words, it appears that NATO does not like Russia in its current form. Of course I am glad to accept you apologies and, in turn, I would like to express mines. I know I can be excessively sarcastic in my tone and I would like to apologize for that. (#) I came to think that politics are all about "whose influence we prefer this time of day". The right to choose is still important.
    - koonsolo 5y ago
      > Russia wants some independence in its decisions from external influence Can you give an example of where Russia cannot take independent decisions?
      - thesz 5y ago
        What I said was conditional, "if Russia wants...". You cut my words out of this condition. I also should phrase it as "if Russia wants more independence..." Right now I cannot provide you with concrete example.
        koonsolo 5y ago
        But you talk about "concerns", so which concerns are that? That Nato would attack Russia?
        thesz 5y ago
        One of these concerns was dual purpose rocket systems deployed next to Russian border. These systems could be refitted with nuclear heads. That's one of things I remember, you may find other.

thesz 5y ago

I think I should point out that you are talking about preventing ongoing war. It is just not possible to prevent harm that was and is being done. I politely withdraw myself from answering your second question. It is too inflammatory. I still think that it is possible for governments to learn - they are people, just like us, - and I think it is not only Russian government who can learn from this situation. I should thank you - (non-)answering your questions made me think by standing in your shoes. It is interesting and important experience.

koonsolo 5y ago
Thank you for your civil response, and my apologies for my rude response. I will ask another more genuine question (it's a real question that I have). If Russia would have a more democratically elected leader (let's just say Navalny for the sake of argument). Would the ties between EU and Russia be more collaborative, or do you still think this would have ended with a war? In other words, is NATO really out to destroy a democratic Russia (Soviet Union is already long gone)?
- thesz 5y ago
  I think that boils down to whether concerns of Putin would be "more heard" if they were expressed by different person. From my point of view, some of these concerns were quite important for, let's say, viability of Russia as country with a pinch of independence. I rephrase. If Russia wants some independence in its decisions from external influence(#), the concerns raised by Putin are valid whoever is the leader of Russia. I think it is unfortunate if the acceptance of these concerns depends on the person expressing them. Moreso, I think it is unrealistic to expect that different person would express same concerns and get different results without exchange of some other important pieces. In other words, it appears that NATO does not like Russia in its current form. Of course I am glad to accept you apologies and, in turn, I would like to express mines. I know I can be excessively sarcastic in my tone and I would like to apologize for that. (#) I came to think that politics are all about "whose influence we prefer this time of day". The right to choose is still important.
  - koonsolo 5y ago
    > Russia wants some independence in its decisions from external influence Can you give an example of where Russia cannot take independent decisions?
    - thesz 5y ago
      What I said was conditional, "if Russia wants...". You cut my words out of this condition. I also should phrase it as "if Russia wants more independence..." Right now I cannot provide you with concrete example.
      - koonsolo 5y ago
        But you talk about "concerns", so which concerns are that? That Nato would attack Russia?
        thesz 5y ago
        One of these concerns was dual purpose rocket systems deployed next to Russian border. These systems could be refitted with nuclear heads. That's one of things I remember, you may find other.