3 ms·

Thanks. Noted and corrected.

eru 5y ago
Don't beat yourself up over it, though. 'The Ukraine' used to be perfectly acceptable English. It's a bit like Burma vs Myanmar.
- eadmund 5y ago
  IMHO it’s still 'the Ukraine,' 'Burma' &c. There's no need to change. We say Paris, with an 's,' not 'paree'; the French say 'Londres,' not London, and that's okay too. Languages use their own words for common place names, and that is fine. There's nothing wrong with using a language's words, and no real need to change them.
  - mcfedr 5y ago
    There is something wrong when it's a clear political statement to use the wrong term
    - smcl 5y ago
      > Thanks. Noted and corrected. Looks like it wasn't a clear political statement, and was instead an honest mistake. Let's not get too carried away with this, there's a very real conflict going on and I don't imagine the people being shelled and shot at are particularly concerned about the word "the" right now.
      - HWR_14 5y ago
        If you read the chain, the clear political statement was by eadmund. But sticking to old terms or naming conventions (or switching to new ones) is often a political statement. It's a powerful way to do it. I mean, look at the people calling COVID-19 "the China virus". Or the people with strong opinions on "blacklist" vs "denylist"
        eadmund 5y ago
        > If you read the chain, the clear political statement was by eadmund. Ummm, I made no clear political statement, just a linguistic one. I am instinctively conservative, and deeply suspicious of folks who promote change for change's sake. Our language is a lovely, beautiful one and we have spent the last several decades abusing it.
        eru 5y ago
        Eh, we've spent the last few hundreds years abusing our lovely language. And the only reason it ain't longer, is because if you go far enough back, it's different enough that we can't call it our language anymore. Language evolves and political correctness is just one force amongst many, and not even a new one: > "Rooster" was originally shorthand for "roosting bird," preferred by the Puritans to the double entendre of the more typical "cock." From https://www.bonappetit.com/test-kitchen/ingredients/article/the-etymology-of-chicken-cock-and-other-fowl-words https://www.bonappetit.com/test-kitchen/ingredients/article/... These days saying rooster doesn't typical indicate any prude leanings by the speaker, even though that's how this change started.
- HWR_14 5y ago
  'The Ukraine' was acceptable when it was a region of other countries (like "the Midlands" or "the American Southwest"). It's unacceptable to refer to a country. I'm sure trying to (subtly) demote Ukraine from a country to a region is a goal of Russian propagandists.
  - aix1 5y ago
    > It's unacceptable to refer to a country. The United States of America, the United Kingdom, the Bahamas, the Gambia, the Democratic Republic of the Congo (and probably others) would like a word. :)
    - drran 5y ago
      Unites States of the America
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      Full names don't get that treatment for some reason, but even that fully applies. It's the United States of America or America. It's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland or Great Britain. It's the People's Republic of China or China. I will admit commonwealth countries are often "The Republic of The X". But that naming seems left over from when they were territories of the British Empire, where "the X" is referring to a subdivision of the empire.
      - eru 5y ago
        You better fix Wikipedia then: > The Netherlands (Dutch: Nederland [ˈneːdərlɑnt] (audio speaker)), informally Holland,[15][16] is a country located in Western Europe with overseas territories in the Caribbean. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands

eru 5y ago

Don't beat yourself up over it, though. 'The Ukraine' used to be perfectly acceptable English. It's a bit like Burma vs Myanmar.

eadmund 5y ago
IMHO it’s still 'the Ukraine,' 'Burma' &c. There's no need to change. We say Paris, with an 's,' not 'paree'; the French say 'Londres,' not London, and that's okay too. Languages use their own words for common place names, and that is fine. There's nothing wrong with using a language's words, and no real need to change them.
- mcfedr 5y ago
  There is something wrong when it's a clear political statement to use the wrong term
  - smcl 5y ago
    > Thanks. Noted and corrected. Looks like it wasn't a clear political statement, and was instead an honest mistake. Let's not get too carried away with this, there's a very real conflict going on and I don't imagine the people being shelled and shot at are particularly concerned about the word "the" right now.
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      If you read the chain, the clear political statement was by eadmund. But sticking to old terms or naming conventions (or switching to new ones) is often a political statement. It's a powerful way to do it. I mean, look at the people calling COVID-19 "the China virus". Or the people with strong opinions on "blacklist" vs "denylist"
      - eadmund 5y ago
        > If you read the chain, the clear political statement was by eadmund. Ummm, I made no clear political statement, just a linguistic one. I am instinctively conservative, and deeply suspicious of folks who promote change for change's sake. Our language is a lovely, beautiful one and we have spent the last several decades abusing it.
        eru 5y ago
        Eh, we've spent the last few hundreds years abusing our lovely language. And the only reason it ain't longer, is because if you go far enough back, it's different enough that we can't call it our language anymore. Language evolves and political correctness is just one force amongst many, and not even a new one: > "Rooster" was originally shorthand for "roosting bird," preferred by the Puritans to the double entendre of the more typical "cock." From https://www.bonappetit.com/test-kitchen/ingredients/article/the-etymology-of-chicken-cock-and-other-fowl-words https://www.bonappetit.com/test-kitchen/ingredients/article/... These days saying rooster doesn't typical indicate any prude leanings by the speaker, even though that's how this change started.
HWR_14 5y ago
'The Ukraine' was acceptable when it was a region of other countries (like "the Midlands" or "the American Southwest"). It's unacceptable to refer to a country. I'm sure trying to (subtly) demote Ukraine from a country to a region is a goal of Russian propagandists.
- aix1 5y ago
  > It's unacceptable to refer to a country. The United States of America, the United Kingdom, the Bahamas, the Gambia, the Democratic Republic of the Congo (and probably others) would like a word. :)
  - drran 5y ago
    Unites States of the America
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    Full names don't get that treatment for some reason, but even that fully applies. It's the United States of America or America. It's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland or Great Britain. It's the People's Republic of China or China. I will admit commonwealth countries are often "The Republic of The X". But that naming seems left over from when they were territories of the British Empire, where "the X" is referring to a subdivision of the empire.
    - eru 5y ago
      You better fix Wikipedia then: > The Netherlands (Dutch: Nederland [ˈneːdərlɑnt] (audio speaker)), informally Holland,[15][16] is a country located in Western Europe with overseas territories in the Caribbean. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands