4 ms·

Ripstop weave does not help waterproofing. Nylon is no more likely to tear when punctured than any other thread. Packcloth is a weave, not another name for poly

Ripstop weave does not help waterproofing. Nylon is no more likely to tear when punctured than any other thread. Packcloth is a weave, not another name for polyester. Polyester is stronger than cotton, not weaker. X-PAC does have fibrous strands since it is a laminate of woven fabrics. Also I think it is somewhat confusing to list thread materials like nylon and polyester, along with brand names like Dyneema and Cordura. Most Cordura fabrics are nylon, for example. Coatings are probably the weak point of durability for many packs. Any of the synthetic fabrics, even light weights, can easily last decades with normal use. But as the article notes, even with the best care, you won’t get much more than 15 years on the coatings. And when polyurethane goes bad, it’s gross. It smells horrible and becomes a sticky goo. It is depressing that despite decades of advancement in outdoor gear, companies are still just spraying PU on and calling it good.

maxerickson 5y ago
I wonder what the environmental impact of outdoor gear is relative to things like gallons of gas and pounds of beef. Like is it worth paying much attention to smallish items that last 15 years?
- SECProto 5y ago
  > is it worth paying much attention to smallish items that last 15 years? No in the sense of emissions and garbage creation from them are negligible. But ensure you pack out everything you pack in, not washing your dish(es if you're bougie) near the water source, etc are very important principals to maintain hiking and camping conditions for whomever comes next. Because that plastic wrapper will definitely last more than 15 years.
  - whoisburbansky 5y ago
    Wait what’s wrong with washing your dishes near the water source?
    - SECProto 5y ago
      Soap isn't a good thing to get in the water. https://lnt.org/the-skinny-on-soap/ https://lnt.org/the-skinny-on-soap/
      - whoisburbansky 5y ago
        Ah, that makes sense. I don’t usually use soap washing stuff backpacking, just a rinse and we’re off, hadn’t occurred to me that soup would be a problem.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
mauvehaus 5y ago
The coatings are an almost complete waste of time on something with as many seams as a pack. Get a trash compactor bag, and use it as a pack liner bag. They last forever and do a better job than any woven fabric with a coating. Bonus: they're usually white, which means you stand half a chance of being able to see the stuff in your pack. White is pretty rare except for Dyneema packs (Dyneema apparently doesn't dye). Edited to add: The other major failure mode for coated and laminated fabrics is when they tape the coated or laminated side. The seam tape flexes differently from the substrate fabric, which pulls at the coating or laminate. I've had coated and Goretex rain jackets fail in this way, as well as coated stuff sacks. Silnylon fares a little better because the silicone is impregnated into the nylon rather than coated on. Silnylon isn't breathable, so it isn't a mainstream material for rain gear though. Source: GA->ME 2010 and another thousand or so miles of hiking.
- nl 5y ago
  You can (now) get Dyneema color printed: https://ripstopbytheroll.com/collections/omnicolor/products/omnicolor-solids-fabrics-with-dyneema https://ripstopbytheroll.com/collections/omnicolor/products/... (I discovered https://ripstopbytheroll.com https://ripstopbytheroll.com from a comment below)
- Tronno 5y ago
  Why would you use a liner bag vs wrapping the exterior of the pack in plastic (as in a rain cover)? Wouldn't that keep the whole pack dry?
  - EdwardDiego 5y ago
    Depends on your use cases :) For me, a rain cover is a hindrance when I need to retrieve things from my pack, I have to remove it entirely, whereas a pack liner, I just need to unfurl the top of it. Secondly, as there are very few bridges in the New Zealand back country, we frequently have to cross the channels of braided rivers. A rain cover keeps out water from above, not so much from below. And as I mentioned in a previous comment, pack liners can, in an emergency, function as a flotation device or emergency shelter.
  - 5y ago
analog31 5y ago
Indeed, my 40 year old generic nylon backpack from a sporting goods store has been my travel bag on nearly every trip I've taken, but I discovered a few years ago upon stepping out into a drenching rain, that it had lost all of its waterproofing. Oops. Now I line it with a plastic trash bag.
germinalphrase 5y ago
I generally prefer waterproof dry bags for that reason. Fabrics need to be burly to remain waterproof for any significant use. Better to dry quickly, sustain wear, and protect a (more easily replaceable) waterproof liner.

maxerickson 5y ago

I wonder what the environmental impact of outdoor gear is relative to things like gallons of gas and pounds of beef. Like is it worth paying much attention to smallish items that last 15 years?

SECProto 5y ago
> is it worth paying much attention to smallish items that last 15 years? No in the sense of emissions and garbage creation from them are negligible. But ensure you pack out everything you pack in, not washing your dish(es if you're bougie) near the water source, etc are very important principals to maintain hiking and camping conditions for whomever comes next. Because that plastic wrapper will definitely last more than 15 years.
- whoisburbansky 5y ago
  Wait what’s wrong with washing your dishes near the water source?
  - SECProto 5y ago
    Soap isn't a good thing to get in the water. https://lnt.org/the-skinny-on-soap/ https://lnt.org/the-skinny-on-soap/
    - whoisburbansky 5y ago
      Ah, that makes sense. I don’t usually use soap washing stuff backpacking, just a rinse and we’re off, hadn’t occurred to me that soup would be a problem.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

mauvehaus 5y ago

The coatings are an almost complete waste of time on something with as many seams as a pack. Get a trash compactor bag, and use it as a pack liner bag. They last forever and do a better job than any woven fabric with a coating. Bonus: they're usually white, which means you stand half a chance of being able to see the stuff in your pack. White is pretty rare except for Dyneema packs (Dyneema apparently doesn't dye). Edited to add: The other major failure mode for coated and laminated fabrics is when they tape the coated or laminated side. The seam tape flexes differently from the substrate fabric, which pulls at the coating or laminate. I've had coated and Goretex rain jackets fail in this way, as well as coated stuff sacks. Silnylon fares a little better because the silicone is impregnated into the nylon rather than coated on. Silnylon isn't breathable, so it isn't a mainstream material for rain gear though. Source: GA->ME 2010 and another thousand or so miles of hiking.

nl 5y ago
You can (now) get Dyneema color printed: https://ripstopbytheroll.com/collections/omnicolor/products/omnicolor-solids-fabrics-with-dyneema https://ripstopbytheroll.com/collections/omnicolor/products/... (I discovered https://ripstopbytheroll.com https://ripstopbytheroll.com from a comment below)
Tronno 5y ago
Why would you use a liner bag vs wrapping the exterior of the pack in plastic (as in a rain cover)? Wouldn't that keep the whole pack dry?
- EdwardDiego 5y ago
  Depends on your use cases :) For me, a rain cover is a hindrance when I need to retrieve things from my pack, I have to remove it entirely, whereas a pack liner, I just need to unfurl the top of it. Secondly, as there are very few bridges in the New Zealand back country, we frequently have to cross the channels of braided rivers. A rain cover keeps out water from above, not so much from below. And as I mentioned in a previous comment, pack liners can, in an emergency, function as a flotation device or emergency shelter.
- 5y ago

analog31 5y ago

Indeed, my 40 year old generic nylon backpack from a sporting goods store has been my travel bag on nearly every trip I've taken, but I discovered a few years ago upon stepping out into a drenching rain, that it had lost all of its waterproofing. Oops. Now I line it with a plastic trash bag.

germinalphrase 5y ago

I generally prefer waterproof dry bags for that reason. Fabrics need to be burly to remain waterproof for any significant use. Better to dry quickly, sustain wear, and protect a (more easily replaceable) waterproof liner.