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No, it will not work because too many Ukrainians will continue fighting against Russians regardless what Zelensky says right now. He might be even killed by Rus

by NoPie 5y ago

No, it will not work because too many Ukrainians will continue fighting against Russians regardless what Zelensky says right now. He might be even killed by Russians any moment now.

s1artibartfast 5y ago
I'm not sure what you are claiming. That Ukrainian militia would follow the Russians back to Russia after Zelensky negotiates a deal? I get that it isn't very emotionally satisfying to give in, but concessions would save countless lives and his country from an unwinnable war.
- NoPie 5y ago
  What does it mean to win a war? Russia can conquer a Ukrainian army but people simply won't accept a Russian government that easily. A genocide-like repressions, similar to golodamor, will be required. It can be averted or the world can simply sit and watch it unfold.
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    >What does it mean to win a war? It means to live in peace and stability, free of foreign control. I think that Ukraine does not have the military strength to achieve this through conflict with Russia, therefore it is militarily unwinnable. >Russia can conquer a Ukrainian army but people simply won't accept a Russian government that easily. I completely agree! I don't think Russia wants to govern all of Ukraine. They want to destroy it's military, make it promise to stay away from NATO, and grant independence to Crimea and the Russian puppet states in the east.
    - NoPie 5y ago
      They already have that. The war is not about that. Russia winning this war will not mean peace and stability, free of foreign control to Ukrainians.
      - s1artibartfast 5y ago
        They already have what? I think you are putting words in my mouth. I never said it would be good for Ukrainians if Russia won, or that Russia even can win. I just said there isn't a realistic outcome where Ukraine wins via military might.
        NoPie 5y ago
        The war is already happening and Russia is going to win and Ukraine will lose. Stopping the war now by negotiations or promises is not going to change the outcome.
        s1artibartfast 5y ago
        >The war is already happening Agreed. >Russia is going to win and Ukraine will lose Agreed. >Stopping the war now by negotiations or promises is not going to change the outcome. A negotiated settlement won't change some outcomes and will change others. A peace agreement wont change the fact that Russia gets what it wants: No NATO in Ukraine, Russia gets Crimea, and Independence for the separatists in eastern Ukraine. A Peace agreement would prevent the loss of countless civilian and military lives, and further destruction across Ukraine.
        NoPie 5y ago
        No, a peace agreement won't do anything you describe. It will only cause the same amount of deaths but from insurgency. There is no rational reason for Ukraine to agree to peace agreement now.
        s1artibartfast 5y ago
        So you prefer war to peace?

by NoPie 5y ago

No, it will not work because too many Ukrainians will continue fighting against Russians regardless what Zelensky says right now. He might be even killed by Russians any moment now.

s1artibartfast 5y ago

I'm not sure what you are claiming. That Ukrainian militia would follow the Russians back to Russia after Zelensky negotiates a deal? I get that it isn't very emotionally satisfying to give in, but concessions would save countless lives and his country from an unwinnable war.

NoPie 5y ago
What does it mean to win a war? Russia can conquer a Ukrainian army but people simply won't accept a Russian government that easily. A genocide-like repressions, similar to golodamor, will be required. It can be averted or the world can simply sit and watch it unfold.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  >What does it mean to win a war? It means to live in peace and stability, free of foreign control. I think that Ukraine does not have the military strength to achieve this through conflict with Russia, therefore it is militarily unwinnable. >Russia can conquer a Ukrainian army but people simply won't accept a Russian government that easily. I completely agree! I don't think Russia wants to govern all of Ukraine. They want to destroy it's military, make it promise to stay away from NATO, and grant independence to Crimea and the Russian puppet states in the east.
  - NoPie 5y ago
    They already have that. The war is not about that. Russia winning this war will not mean peace and stability, free of foreign control to Ukrainians.
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      They already have what? I think you are putting words in my mouth. I never said it would be good for Ukrainians if Russia won, or that Russia even can win. I just said there isn't a realistic outcome where Ukraine wins via military might.
      - NoPie 5y ago
        The war is already happening and Russia is going to win and Ukraine will lose. Stopping the war now by negotiations or promises is not going to change the outcome.
        s1artibartfast 5y ago
        >The war is already happening Agreed. >Russia is going to win and Ukraine will lose Agreed. >Stopping the war now by negotiations or promises is not going to change the outcome. A negotiated settlement won't change some outcomes and will change others. A peace agreement wont change the fact that Russia gets what it wants: No NATO in Ukraine, Russia gets Crimea, and Independence for the separatists in eastern Ukraine. A Peace agreement would prevent the loss of countless civilian and military lives, and further destruction across Ukraine.
        NoPie 5y ago
        No, a peace agreement won't do anything you describe. It will only cause the same amount of deaths but from insurgency. There is no rational reason for Ukraine to agree to peace agreement now.
        s1artibartfast 5y ago
        So you prefer war to peace?