3 ms·

While interesting, I'm skeptical an algorithmic approach will ever come close to a decent wavetable-based synth (using samples/noises from the real instrument)

by mkr-hn 5y ago

While interesting, I'm skeptical an algorithmic approach will ever come close to a decent wavetable-based synth (using samples/noises from the real instrument) or scripted sampler instrument (like Kontakt). It might help if you can't otherwise find an existing synth/sample-based instrument but can find it in use, but those are few and far between.

uoaei 5y ago
"ever"? I am not usually on the techno-optimist side of things but I have a hard time believing, after observing the progress of SOTA in the past decade on the big problems explored by ML research, that we are more than 5-10 years out from exceptional generative samplers based on tiny snippets of audio.
- mkr-hn 5y ago
  I don't know what SOTA is. Are we still on-topic here? The context is realistic instruments. Synths can already produce timbres pre-electronic instrument designers could only dream of.
  - uoaei 5y ago
    "State Of The Art"
  - uoaei 5y ago
    That's true but those still need to be hand-designed. The point of the ML-based approaches is to make it easier for users to explore the space of sounds, rather than setting up a pre-defined API (knobs, switches, etc.) for modifying the sounds manually.
- graphpercolator 5y ago
  I don't think this is even the problem though. We have amazing physical modeling synths but the problem is it is not "playable" with a keyboard in the sense of being able to control all the needed variables. You basically need a breathe controller to make a realistic playable sax sound otherwise you can't control the variables in real time that are needed. Personally, I want to hear synth sounds that are not even trying to be reproductions of acoustic instruments. If I want to hear a sax sound I want to hear someone who is really good on a real sax and who knows how to actually play a sax.
  - uoaei 5y ago
    You may be interested in stuff like this: https://nsynthsuper.withgoogle.com/ https://nsynthsuper.withgoogle.com/
olau 5y ago
I have so far not heard a convincing piano synthesizer, i.e. one that would fool a pianist. Pianos are actually really easy, input-wise. You have attack speed, when you lift the keys and pedals, and that's it. But simulating the audio computations done by a physical instrument is just really difficult. There are some physically-based (spherical cow physical) synths that sound more alive than the usual sample-based stuff, but their timbre is not right. If I had more time, this is what I'd be working on right now. There's a market for a great piano synthesizer.

by mkr-hn 5y ago

uoaei 5y ago

"ever"? I am not usually on the techno-optimist side of things but I have a hard time believing, after observing the progress of SOTA in the past decade on the big problems explored by ML research, that we are more than 5-10 years out from exceptional generative samplers based on tiny snippets of audio.

mkr-hn 5y ago
I don't know what SOTA is. Are we still on-topic here? The context is realistic instruments. Synths can already produce timbres pre-electronic instrument designers could only dream of.
- uoaei 5y ago
  "State Of The Art"
- uoaei 5y ago
  That's true but those still need to be hand-designed. The point of the ML-based approaches is to make it easier for users to explore the space of sounds, rather than setting up a pre-defined API (knobs, switches, etc.) for modifying the sounds manually.
graphpercolator 5y ago
I don't think this is even the problem though. We have amazing physical modeling synths but the problem is it is not "playable" with a keyboard in the sense of being able to control all the needed variables. You basically need a breathe controller to make a realistic playable sax sound otherwise you can't control the variables in real time that are needed. Personally, I want to hear synth sounds that are not even trying to be reproductions of acoustic instruments. If I want to hear a sax sound I want to hear someone who is really good on a real sax and who knows how to actually play a sax.
- uoaei 5y ago
  You may be interested in stuff like this: https://nsynthsuper.withgoogle.com/ https://nsynthsuper.withgoogle.com/

olau 5y ago

I have so far not heard a convincing piano synthesizer, i.e. one that would fool a pianist. Pianos are actually really easy, input-wise. You have attack speed, when you lift the keys and pedals, and that's it. But simulating the audio computations done by a physical instrument is just really difficult. There are some physically-based (spherical cow physical) synths that sound more alive than the usual sample-based stuff, but their timbre is not right. If I had more time, this is what I'd be working on right now. There's a market for a great piano synthesizer.