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> Why do you think that we all should feel pain of sanctions? We want Russia to stop their criminal war on Ukraine. Either by government action, open revolt or

by dtx1 5y ago

> Why do you think that we all should feel pain of sanctions? We want Russia to stop their criminal war on Ukraine. Either by government action, open revolt or a population starving in the streets. The only other option is nuclear holocaust.

osigurdson 5y ago
I don't want to see anyone starving on the streets but massive civil disobedience or a nation-wide strike by the Russian people would be incredible to see.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  That's what got Poland its freedom. The one thing any dictator really fears is a mass uprising.
  - yeellow 5y ago
    Sorry, you keep repeating that linking strikes in 1980, but the freedom came 10 years later (after Soviet union collapse). Those protests gave us (I mean as a consequence, not to say they were not justified) martial law and so called "lost decade". Miserable time. I also hope for a big change in Russia after some revolution, but it is not that simple under a strict dictatorship.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      Yes, it took a years, so what? Poland showed the way for all of the USSR satellite states and was instrumental in the collapse of the union. I know that America likes to take credit for this through their financing and support of Afghanistan during the Russian-Afghan war but I am pretty sure that that does not properly credit all of the players. The protests gave you martial law and the lost decade, but they also gave you the foundation of what came after: the best performing ex sovbloc country. I'm sure proximity to Germany helped here, a lot of money got dumped into Poland but at the same time Poland worked extremely hard to get where it is today. And without those protests all that might have never happened, or it might have happened much later. > I also hope for a big change in Russia after some revolution, but it is not that simple under a strict dictatorship. This is true, and Russia has far bigger problems than Poland had, in spite of being plundered for decades. I'm under no illusion that such a process would be either quick or easy.
      - netsharc 5y ago
        I'm reminded of reddit saying they're going to shut down the USA with protest if Trump fired Mueller. Easy to say "You all should do X!", but even in the US people said "well if I skip work to protest I'll lose my job.". Telling others they should endure a decade of pain... Hah, would you do the same, in their position? (I guess the keyboard warriors will say yes...)
        jacquesm 5y ago
        If this is the first tough and principled choice you have to make in your life then I can imagine it is hard. I've worked hard to put together a life that is worth living, but if it comes to Russia calling the shots here then I'm prepared to give that all up. You don't have to believe me.
- kelseyfrog 5y ago
  Sure, give Putin his own 2 March (O.S.) / 15 March (N.S.) 1917.

by dtx1 5y ago

osigurdson 5y ago

I don't want to see anyone starving on the streets but massive civil disobedience or a nation-wide strike by the Russian people would be incredible to see.

jacquesm 5y ago
That's what got Poland its freedom. The one thing any dictator really fears is a mass uprising.
- yeellow 5y ago
  Sorry, you keep repeating that linking strikes in 1980, but the freedom came 10 years later (after Soviet union collapse). Those protests gave us (I mean as a consequence, not to say they were not justified) martial law and so called "lost decade". Miserable time. I also hope for a big change in Russia after some revolution, but it is not that simple under a strict dictatorship.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Yes, it took a years, so what? Poland showed the way for all of the USSR satellite states and was instrumental in the collapse of the union. I know that America likes to take credit for this through their financing and support of Afghanistan during the Russian-Afghan war but I am pretty sure that that does not properly credit all of the players. The protests gave you martial law and the lost decade, but they also gave you the foundation of what came after: the best performing ex sovbloc country. I'm sure proximity to Germany helped here, a lot of money got dumped into Poland but at the same time Poland worked extremely hard to get where it is today. And without those protests all that might have never happened, or it might have happened much later. > I also hope for a big change in Russia after some revolution, but it is not that simple under a strict dictatorship. This is true, and Russia has far bigger problems than Poland had, in spite of being plundered for decades. I'm under no illusion that such a process would be either quick or easy.
    - netsharc 5y ago
      I'm reminded of reddit saying they're going to shut down the USA with protest if Trump fired Mueller. Easy to say "You all should do X!", but even in the US people said "well if I skip work to protest I'll lose my job.". Telling others they should endure a decade of pain... Hah, would you do the same, in their position? (I guess the keyboard warriors will say yes...)
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        If this is the first tough and principled choice you have to make in your life then I can imagine it is hard. I've worked hard to put together a life that is worth living, but if it comes to Russia calling the shots here then I'm prepared to give that all up. You don't have to believe me.
kelseyfrog 5y ago
Sure, give Putin his own 2 March (O.S.) / 15 March (N.S.) 1917.