11 ms·

They will breath the dust and get some internal radiation though. Not really a problem for the others if they move after that, but not very good for them.

by temac 5y ago

connordoner 5y ago
One might argue that’s a price you pay when murdering innocent civilians in land that isn’t yours, no?
- yumraj 5y ago
  Yeah, but Putin's not the one breathing it - the foot soldiers are.
  - chasil 5y ago
    I am drawn to the words of Stephen Decatur. "In her intercourse with foreign nations, may she always be in the right; but our country, right or wrong." I am sure there are many perspectives tonight with the same focus. Perhaps it is a great impediment to what must be done for our species, but it is hard to let go.
- belval 5y ago
  Not to be a apologist of what Russia is doing (really really against the current invasion/occupation) but from what we've seen around social media, it's not clear that the actual soldiers on the ground understand that they aren't "liberating" the Ukrainians from actual Nazis. They are fed misinformation on a daily basis and at least some of them see themselves as the "good guys". It does not excuse anything really, but I wouldn't wish them pulmonary cancer.
  - ajsnigrutin 5y ago
    Eh, the soldiers know... it's for "power", against nato, and to get a bit more of the land. Look at every past conflict, every american soldier in iraq knew, that they were going in to get the oil, everything else was just propaganda for the taxpayers.
    - thrashh 5y ago
      Yeah this war is to try to stop NATO expansion, especially into Ukraine. In a way, it may do that. It’s just silly because countries have considered joining NATO because they don’t perceive Russia as a good friend, and in response, Russia doubles down as a bad friend.
      - quadrangle 5y ago
        Sounds like a significant-other who is paranoid, and then when you leave them because they are crazy, they use it to justify their paranoia and become a stalker. Okay, not really a good analogy but sorta good
    - stjohnswarts 5y ago
      For further clarification this is NOT a war to stop NATO expansion as Ukraine was no where near that and it could have been stopped diplomatically. This is a war started by a dictator who has aims to restore the USSR before he kills over or is deposed in the next 10 to 15 years. This war is about nothing more than Putin's ego. Just for clarification.
      - m348e912 5y ago
        The last thing Putin needs is another quagmire like Afghanistan in the 80s for the USSR, and the 2000s/2010s for the US. If anything he'd probably like to see Luhansk and Donetsk become globally recognized independent states. Ukraine is certainly strategic. Russia has recently INCREASED gas supplies through Ukraine even though they are at war. The idea that he's a madman looking to get the old commie band back together is kind of far-fetched. This is about money and influence, and specifically Nordstream2, which I imagine will go online sooner rather than later.
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      > Look at every past conflict, every american soldier in iraq knew, that they were going in to get the oil, everything else was just propaganda for the taxpayers. What do folks exactly mean by "get the oil" because it certainly wasn't for domestic consumption. About 72% of US foreign oil comes from Canada and Mexico - mostly Canada. The rest, a broad smattering of countries without any meaningful concentration. Iraq accounts for only 3%. Considering the cost of the Iraq war was $2T that's a heck of a price to pay for just not that much oil. [1] If America just wanted oil would it not go for the single largest proven reserves of oil on the entire planet, in Venezeula, and deposit some freedom there? The government there is equally hostile, and particularly unstable. In Civ parlance, the warmonger penalty would be low. [2] [1] https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-products/imports-and-exports.php https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-produc... [2] https://www.worldometers.info/oil/oil-reserves-by-country/ https://www.worldometers.info/oil/oil-reserves-by-country/
  - mywittyname 5y ago
    It's typical that troops are kept in the dark about mission details.
  - mdoms 5y ago
    > Not to be a apologist of what Russia is doing [... apologism]
    - ajsnigrutin 5y ago
      I live in the balkans... The main sentiment here, especially amongst the older people is, "russia is strong enough, that they can do the stuff america has been doing for decades now", but due to media influences, it's not a "war for democracy" and "saving the locals", as the americans would paint eg. attacking afghanistan after a few saudis flew a few planes into a few buildings. My personal and very contraversial opinion is, that every country that currently has soldiers as a part of an occupying force in any country, should just shut the fuck up, and clean up their own messes first.
      - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
        Whataboutism isn't an argument and these are also false equivalencies. Hundreds of thousands of us were out in the streets protesting when western countries attacked Iraq. Most of us are the same people angry about Russia in Ukraine.
        lazide 5y ago
        Did it make a difference either time?
        cmrdporcupine 5y ago
        Yes, my country (Canada) did not participate in the invasion of Iraq. And in large part to the vociferous opposition and protests against it in the days leading up to the decision.
        lazide 5y ago
        Glad to hear it! Here in the US, the ‘wag the dog’ was pretty obvious almost immediately (Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, but that didn’t stop anything), and the protests didn’t seem to do much either.
  - ineedasername 5y ago
    I think that's perfectly fair. In most of the West we may lament one-sided networks or echo chambers on & offline, but our access & awareness of alternative opinions seems much higher. Whereas Russian media outlets are much more constrained, and Russian misinformation try to poison the well by throwing out so many things that there's no way for the average person to easily sift through it all. Throw in few small kernels of truth and the fact that no one really want's to see themselves as villains & I can see how the misinformation may take root. Given a dozen narratives along with no choice but to follow orders in the military, why not latch on to the narrative that doesn't cast you as a villain? Although it's a lot more difficult to defend & give such a benefit of the doubt to soldiers like the ones in the tank that went after & drove over a car [0 video 0]. Thankfully there's another video I came across showing a crowd of people dismantling & literally chiseling away at the wreck to save the person miraculously still alive. It's hard to describe the feeling when you see, in a single situation, the absolute worst and the absolute best of human nature. [0 video] https://www.thedailybeast.com/ukrainian-man-miraculously-survives-russian-tank-running-over-his-car https://www.thedailybeast.com/ukrainian-man-miraculously-sur...
    - nopenopenopeno 5y ago
      > In most of the West we may lament one-sided networks or echo chambers on & offline, but our access & awareness of alternative opinions seems much higher. This simply isn’t the case. We are fed gobs of nonsense on a constant basis. The American elite and American media are utterly shameless. Did you notice Putin’s jab at the American elite’s claims that Iraq had WMDs? In his speech, he accused Ukraine of building WMDs. Obviously nobody actually believes that, including himself, but everybody also knows the West can’t question his accusation without only humiliating themselves. He was 100% reminding Western leaders how full of shit everybody knows them to be. And he was exactly right to do so. Have you ever discussed politics with a Russian? As it happens, I did pair programming practice with a Russian peer 3 days ago and we discussed the conflict. She said she was surprised to meet an American with “some political sense.” She was more conscious of worldly affairs than almost any American I know. And she wrote a perfect BFS pathfinding algorithm in a handful of minutes.
      - 5y ago
  - stjohnswarts 5y ago
    I have no compassion for the Russians invading Ukraine, it wouldn't be a terrible at all if they all keeled over dead in an instant due to Big Daddy In The Sky doing something right for once.
    - connordoner 5y ago
      U ok, hun?
  - WaxedChewbacca 5y ago
mr_mitm 5y ago
Being sent into war is also not very good for them. The radiation is probably the least of their worries.

They will breath the dust and get some internal radiation though. Not really a problem for the others if they move after that, but not very good for them.

by temac 5y ago

They will breath the dust and get some internal radiation though. Not really a problem for the others if they move after that, but not very good for them.

connordoner 5y ago

One might argue that’s a price you pay when murdering innocent civilians in land that isn’t yours, no?

yumraj 5y ago
Yeah, but Putin's not the one breathing it - the foot soldiers are.
- chasil 5y ago
  I am drawn to the words of Stephen Decatur. "In her intercourse with foreign nations, may she always be in the right; but our country, right or wrong." I am sure there are many perspectives tonight with the same focus. Perhaps it is a great impediment to what must be done for our species, but it is hard to let go.
belval 5y ago
Not to be a apologist of what Russia is doing (really really against the current invasion/occupation) but from what we've seen around social media, it's not clear that the actual soldiers on the ground understand that they aren't "liberating" the Ukrainians from actual Nazis. They are fed misinformation on a daily basis and at least some of them see themselves as the "good guys". It does not excuse anything really, but I wouldn't wish them pulmonary cancer.
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  Eh, the soldiers know... it's for "power", against nato, and to get a bit more of the land. Look at every past conflict, every american soldier in iraq knew, that they were going in to get the oil, everything else was just propaganda for the taxpayers.
  - thrashh 5y ago
    Yeah this war is to try to stop NATO expansion, especially into Ukraine. In a way, it may do that. It’s just silly because countries have considered joining NATO because they don’t perceive Russia as a good friend, and in response, Russia doubles down as a bad friend.
    - quadrangle 5y ago
      Sounds like a significant-other who is paranoid, and then when you leave them because they are crazy, they use it to justify their paranoia and become a stalker. Okay, not really a good analogy but sorta good
  - stjohnswarts 5y ago
    For further clarification this is NOT a war to stop NATO expansion as Ukraine was no where near that and it could have been stopped diplomatically. This is a war started by a dictator who has aims to restore the USSR before he kills over or is deposed in the next 10 to 15 years. This war is about nothing more than Putin's ego. Just for clarification.
    - m348e912 5y ago
      The last thing Putin needs is another quagmire like Afghanistan in the 80s for the USSR, and the 2000s/2010s for the US. If anything he'd probably like to see Luhansk and Donetsk become globally recognized independent states. Ukraine is certainly strategic. Russia has recently INCREASED gas supplies through Ukraine even though they are at war. The idea that he's a madman looking to get the old commie band back together is kind of far-fetched. This is about money and influence, and specifically Nordstream2, which I imagine will go online sooner rather than later.
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    > Look at every past conflict, every american soldier in iraq knew, that they were going in to get the oil, everything else was just propaganda for the taxpayers. What do folks exactly mean by "get the oil" because it certainly wasn't for domestic consumption. About 72% of US foreign oil comes from Canada and Mexico - mostly Canada. The rest, a broad smattering of countries without any meaningful concentration. Iraq accounts for only 3%. Considering the cost of the Iraq war was $2T that's a heck of a price to pay for just not that much oil. [1] If America just wanted oil would it not go for the single largest proven reserves of oil on the entire planet, in Venezeula, and deposit some freedom there? The government there is equally hostile, and particularly unstable. In Civ parlance, the warmonger penalty would be low. [2] [1] https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-products/imports-and-exports.php https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-produc... [2] https://www.worldometers.info/oil/oil-reserves-by-country/ https://www.worldometers.info/oil/oil-reserves-by-country/
- mywittyname 5y ago
  It's typical that troops are kept in the dark about mission details.
- mdoms 5y ago
  > Not to be a apologist of what Russia is doing [... apologism]
  - ajsnigrutin 5y ago
    I live in the balkans... The main sentiment here, especially amongst the older people is, "russia is strong enough, that they can do the stuff america has been doing for decades now", but due to media influences, it's not a "war for democracy" and "saving the locals", as the americans would paint eg. attacking afghanistan after a few saudis flew a few planes into a few buildings. My personal and very contraversial opinion is, that every country that currently has soldiers as a part of an occupying force in any country, should just shut the fuck up, and clean up their own messes first.
    - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
      Whataboutism isn't an argument and these are also false equivalencies. Hundreds of thousands of us were out in the streets protesting when western countries attacked Iraq. Most of us are the same people angry about Russia in Ukraine.
      - lazide 5y ago
        Did it make a difference either time?
        cmrdporcupine 5y ago
        Yes, my country (Canada) did not participate in the invasion of Iraq. And in large part to the vociferous opposition and protests against it in the days leading up to the decision.
        lazide 5y ago
        Glad to hear it! Here in the US, the ‘wag the dog’ was pretty obvious almost immediately (Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, but that didn’t stop anything), and the protests didn’t seem to do much either.
- ineedasername 5y ago
  I think that's perfectly fair. In most of the West we may lament one-sided networks or echo chambers on & offline, but our access & awareness of alternative opinions seems much higher. Whereas Russian media outlets are much more constrained, and Russian misinformation try to poison the well by throwing out so many things that there's no way for the average person to easily sift through it all. Throw in few small kernels of truth and the fact that no one really want's to see themselves as villains & I can see how the misinformation may take root. Given a dozen narratives along with no choice but to follow orders in the military, why not latch on to the narrative that doesn't cast you as a villain? Although it's a lot more difficult to defend & give such a benefit of the doubt to soldiers like the ones in the tank that went after & drove over a car [0 video 0]. Thankfully there's another video I came across showing a crowd of people dismantling & literally chiseling away at the wreck to save the person miraculously still alive. It's hard to describe the feeling when you see, in a single situation, the absolute worst and the absolute best of human nature. [0 video] https://www.thedailybeast.com/ukrainian-man-miraculously-survives-russian-tank-running-over-his-car https://www.thedailybeast.com/ukrainian-man-miraculously-sur...
  - nopenopenopeno 5y ago
    > In most of the West we may lament one-sided networks or echo chambers on & offline, but our access & awareness of alternative opinions seems much higher. This simply isn’t the case. We are fed gobs of nonsense on a constant basis. The American elite and American media are utterly shameless. Did you notice Putin’s jab at the American elite’s claims that Iraq had WMDs? In his speech, he accused Ukraine of building WMDs. Obviously nobody actually believes that, including himself, but everybody also knows the West can’t question his accusation without only humiliating themselves. He was 100% reminding Western leaders how full of shit everybody knows them to be. And he was exactly right to do so. Have you ever discussed politics with a Russian? As it happens, I did pair programming practice with a Russian peer 3 days ago and we discussed the conflict. She said she was surprised to meet an American with “some political sense.” She was more conscious of worldly affairs than almost any American I know. And she wrote a perfect BFS pathfinding algorithm in a handful of minutes.
    - 5y ago
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  I have no compassion for the Russians invading Ukraine, it wouldn't be a terrible at all if they all keeled over dead in an instant due to Big Daddy In The Sky doing something right for once.
  - connordoner 5y ago
    U ok, hun?
- WaxedChewbacca 5y ago

mr_mitm 5y ago

Being sent into war is also not very good for them. The radiation is probably the least of their worries.