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It's just my opinion based on what I know. I hope whatever is done, whether it's my viewpoint or yours, is the correct one. There is likely no right answer here

It's just my opinion based on what I know. I hope whatever is done, whether it's my viewpoint or yours, is the correct one. There is likely no right answer here, just degrees of success and it depends how many innocent Ukrainians you're prepared to let die (and the citizens of the next nation on Putin's list). I'm praying for President Biden so he may make the right decision. So far, I'm dismayed. It does sound like we both want success for Ukraine here. I just don't believe that anything but full-on measures will be enough. I think it's wishful thinking. Putin is clearly the bully at school that you either punched in the nose, or you didn't. If you didn't, you're likely still getting bullied to this day. They prey on weakness. The west is weak, and this is our moment to put our money where our mouth is on defending freedom. >USA originally did nothing as Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia, Austra, Poland, and even France. That's the problem. We already learned what happens next.

dragontamer 5y ago
> That's the problem. We already learned what happens next. No. You missed the lesson. USA is largely a peaceful nation that's many thousands of miles away from this conflict. It takes an incredible amount of evil before the US people are roused into action. The US people in 1939 or 1940 weren't ignorant. Even as Hitler rose and took over large swaths of Europe, the US citizen was not roused into action. It still took significant amounts of political pressure / propaganda to get people to agree with the Arsenal of Democracy approach after the fall of France. ------- EDIT: Those troubles are still with us today. We are still a nation very far away and seen as outsiders to the countries we visit. No one wants the USA to half-ass a war, that's how you get Afghanistan/Iraq/Vietnam. Rousing the people to action is an incredibly important part of sending troops. If the people don't support the actions, the troops fight with less morale and less justice in their hearts. The NATO process holds power. I do believe that if a NATO ally is attacked, the US people will rise up and truly move to defend our allies. You can't trigger that prematurely or artificially.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  > It takes an incredible amount of evil before the US people are roused into action. Fair enough. Which is why the world stood with you after 9/11. And this is a far larger event.
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    I'm not ignorant of the ISAF / Operation Enduring Freedom if that's what you're referencing. And I do think that's a good point you bring up.
- BuckRogers 5y ago
  I'm more representative of the US today than the long gone population of 1939 is at this point. In 1939, the nation was weary of being involved with European wars, having just finished one 20 years prior. My family fought in both of them. My grandfather (RIP) had scars up and down his body from German gunfire. My great grandfather, who was a grandchild of Germany himself, fought in the French trenches before him. I'm a descendent of the people of 1939 USA, we did learn and we changed. I'm the product. Further, I think I am taking the lesson correctly. It's not about the "wisdom of the masses" (which I do not believe in) as you suggest, but rather doing the right thing as soon as possible. We made a mistake in 1939, I believe the people of the US today are a proud and noble people, unafraid of self-sacrifice and doing the right thing for humanity and world peace. Hitler nearly won. I've never seen a more worthy time to commit our lives to a cause than today, at least in the course of my life. This is a once in a lifetime calling of our conscience that we have to answer. We'll be answering it anyway, on less favorable terms later on.

dragontamer 5y ago

> That's the problem. We already learned what happens next. No. You missed the lesson. USA is largely a peaceful nation that's many thousands of miles away from this conflict. It takes an incredible amount of evil before the US people are roused into action. The US people in 1939 or 1940 weren't ignorant. Even as Hitler rose and took over large swaths of Europe, the US citizen was not roused into action. It still took significant amounts of political pressure / propaganda to get people to agree with the Arsenal of Democracy approach after the fall of France. ------- EDIT: Those troubles are still with us today. We are still a nation very far away and seen as outsiders to the countries we visit. No one wants the USA to half-ass a war, that's how you get Afghanistan/Iraq/Vietnam. Rousing the people to action is an incredibly important part of sending troops. If the people don't support the actions, the troops fight with less morale and less justice in their hearts. The NATO process holds power. I do believe that if a NATO ally is attacked, the US people will rise up and truly move to defend our allies. You can't trigger that prematurely or artificially.

jacquesm 5y ago
> It takes an incredible amount of evil before the US people are roused into action. Fair enough. Which is why the world stood with you after 9/11. And this is a far larger event.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  I'm not ignorant of the ISAF / Operation Enduring Freedom if that's what you're referencing. And I do think that's a good point you bring up.
BuckRogers 5y ago
I'm more representative of the US today than the long gone population of 1939 is at this point. In 1939, the nation was weary of being involved with European wars, having just finished one 20 years prior. My family fought in both of them. My grandfather (RIP) had scars up and down his body from German gunfire. My great grandfather, who was a grandchild of Germany himself, fought in the French trenches before him. I'm a descendent of the people of 1939 USA, we did learn and we changed. I'm the product. Further, I think I am taking the lesson correctly. It's not about the "wisdom of the masses" (which I do not believe in) as you suggest, but rather doing the right thing as soon as possible. We made a mistake in 1939, I believe the people of the US today are a proud and noble people, unafraid of self-sacrifice and doing the right thing for humanity and world peace. Hitler nearly won. I've never seen a more worthy time to commit our lives to a cause than today, at least in the course of my life. This is a once in a lifetime calling of our conscience that we have to answer. We'll be answering it anyway, on less favorable terms later on.