5 ms·

does it actually matter that people don't all the grammar rules or how to spell things? an english sentence contains a lot of parity data. when you do know all

does it actually matter that people don't all the grammar rules or how to spell things? an english sentence contains a lot of parity data. when you do know all the rules, it can be painful to see the mistakes people make, but confusing "principle" with "principal" or using "who" when you should have used "whom" doesn't really obscure the meaning of the sentence. when it comes to formal correspondence, spellcheck is always there to help. or better yet, get a copywriter or technical writer to help you and go back to your main responsibilities.

apazzolini 5y ago
Yes, clarity and grammar matter. For example, with your lack of capitalization, I wouldn't know if you were trying to help your Uncle Jack off a horse or your uncle jack off a horse.
- NateEag 5y ago
  Though no one has ever written either of those sentences for any reason other than to put up a strawman to tear down in their defense of grammar. I'm a fan of learning grammar well, to be clear, and wish mine were better, but this is not a good argument for grammar mattering.
- leetcrew 5y ago
  okay, you can also come up with plenty of examples of ambiguous parses that don't require violating any grammar rules. fortunately humans are a bit more intelligent than compilers and can use their knowledge of context to settle on the more reasonable interpretation.
  - jamiek88 5y ago
    But why make other humans do extra work to parse you? It’s arrogant in the extreme to say ‘that’s good enough you figure it out’. Even scanning text is jarring when the rules aren’t followed, takes extra time to comprehend and adds to the minor irritants of daily life and will have people judging you, even subconsciously, as unintelligent.
Teever 5y ago
> does it actually matter that people don't all the grammar rules or how to spell things? It does if you hold the view that teaching someone to speak and write is teaching them them think. If that is correct than if someone does not know how to speak and write in a grammatically correct fashion then the implication is that they do not know how to think properly. Even if there isn't a perfect 1to1 mapping between grammatically correct writing and thinking skills, I still think it's a good proxy for measuring a persons ability to think because in general the more you read, the better you get at writing, and the more you read, the more you know.* * the traditional caveats apply with garbage in, garbage out.
- leetcrew 5y ago
  > It does if you hold the view that teaching someone to speak and write is teaching them them think. I don't hold that view. at least, I don't think effective communication requires mastering the formal rules of a natural language. I'm not even sure communication itself is that closely tied to complex thought. I've known a few brilliant engineers whose english was barely sufficient for work. perhaps they were quite elegant in their native tongues; I wouldn't be able to say.
  - LadyCoconut 5y ago
    > I'm not even sure communication itself is that closely tied to complex thought. I think it does in some respect; our language's grammar and vocabulary litteraly govern the way we see the world, after all[1]. As a personal anecdote, I'm ESL and write as a hobby, both in my native language and English, and I do feel the differences (and limitations) in the way my mind works depending on language. I know that my inadequacies in English mean that my style is different. Descriptions and reasonings are simpler. In my native language, I can easily use word plays, ambiguities, be bolder and "more clever" (or less stupid :p). In English, I unconsciously keep things less complex. I'm a different author, and so the worlds I describe in my texts are simpler, too. English is also far more "pragmatic" than my birth language. I can't word things the same way. Thus, my thinking as an "English writer" is far more rational and cause-to-effect-ish. It's like any tool: you can absolutely use a programming language through tutorial and google searches, but you have to truly master it to really understand its concepts, to really use it to do something cleverly and intelligently -- and you won't plan a complex task the very same way in two different programming languages. [1] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110314132531.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110314132531.h...
exikyut 5y ago
> does it actually matter that people don't all the grammar rules No. *ducks*
- leetcrew 5y ago
  ironic, but it actually supports my point so I'll leave it that way :)
not1ofU 5y ago
I for one blame the Grammar-Nazis and their anti-semantic ways ok, i'll let myself out.
Silhouette 5y ago
does it actually matter that people don't all the grammar rules or how to spell things? Does it matter if someone does not write with perfect grammar and spelling? Probably not. However at some point you have drifted so far from normal conventions that you are no longer communicating effectively. You can make reasonable arguments about both prescriptivism and descriptivism but if your spelling and grammar are so bad that someone can't understand you then you're not a descriptivist, you're just wrong. I have encountered this more often than I'd like in professional settings. I work in software development, a field where precision is important, so if I'm looking at your job application and it's full of basic language errors then I absolutely will judge you for that.
pinephoneguy 5y ago
Good writing is probably like dressing up. It's not just what people think of you, you think of yourself better too.

apazzolini 5y ago

Yes, clarity and grammar matter. For example, with your lack of capitalization, I wouldn't know if you were trying to help your Uncle Jack off a horse or your uncle jack off a horse.

NateEag 5y ago
Though no one has ever written either of those sentences for any reason other than to put up a strawman to tear down in their defense of grammar. I'm a fan of learning grammar well, to be clear, and wish mine were better, but this is not a good argument for grammar mattering.
leetcrew 5y ago
okay, you can also come up with plenty of examples of ambiguous parses that don't require violating any grammar rules. fortunately humans are a bit more intelligent than compilers and can use their knowledge of context to settle on the more reasonable interpretation.
- jamiek88 5y ago
  But why make other humans do extra work to parse you? It’s arrogant in the extreme to say ‘that’s good enough you figure it out’. Even scanning text is jarring when the rules aren’t followed, takes extra time to comprehend and adds to the minor irritants of daily life and will have people judging you, even subconsciously, as unintelligent.

Teever 5y ago

> does it actually matter that people don't all the grammar rules or how to spell things? It does if you hold the view that teaching someone to speak and write is teaching them them think. If that is correct than if someone does not know how to speak and write in a grammatically correct fashion then the implication is that they do not know how to think properly. Even if there isn't a perfect 1to1 mapping between grammatically correct writing and thinking skills, I still think it's a good proxy for measuring a persons ability to think because in general the more you read, the better you get at writing, and the more you read, the more you know.* * the traditional caveats apply with garbage in, garbage out.

leetcrew 5y ago
> It does if you hold the view that teaching someone to speak and write is teaching them them think. I don't hold that view. at least, I don't think effective communication requires mastering the formal rules of a natural language. I'm not even sure communication itself is that closely tied to complex thought. I've known a few brilliant engineers whose english was barely sufficient for work. perhaps they were quite elegant in their native tongues; I wouldn't be able to say.
- LadyCoconut 5y ago
  > I'm not even sure communication itself is that closely tied to complex thought. I think it does in some respect; our language's grammar and vocabulary litteraly govern the way we see the world, after all[1]. As a personal anecdote, I'm ESL and write as a hobby, both in my native language and English, and I do feel the differences (and limitations) in the way my mind works depending on language. I know that my inadequacies in English mean that my style is different. Descriptions and reasonings are simpler. In my native language, I can easily use word plays, ambiguities, be bolder and "more clever" (or less stupid :p). In English, I unconsciously keep things less complex. I'm a different author, and so the worlds I describe in my texts are simpler, too. English is also far more "pragmatic" than my birth language. I can't word things the same way. Thus, my thinking as an "English writer" is far more rational and cause-to-effect-ish. It's like any tool: you can absolutely use a programming language through tutorial and google searches, but you have to truly master it to really understand its concepts, to really use it to do something cleverly and intelligently -- and you won't plan a complex task the very same way in two different programming languages. [1] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110314132531.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110314132531.h...

exikyut 5y ago

> does it actually matter that people don't all the grammar rules No. *ducks*

leetcrew 5y ago
ironic, but it actually supports my point so I'll leave it that way :)

not1ofU 5y ago

I for one blame the Grammar-Nazis and their anti-semantic ways ok, i'll let myself out.

Silhouette 5y ago

does it actually matter that people don't all the grammar rules or how to spell things? Does it matter if someone does not write with perfect grammar and spelling? Probably not. However at some point you have drifted so far from normal conventions that you are no longer communicating effectively. You can make reasonable arguments about both prescriptivism and descriptivism but if your spelling and grammar are so bad that someone can't understand you then you're not a descriptivist, you're just wrong. I have encountered this more often than I'd like in professional settings. I work in software development, a field where precision is important, so if I'm looking at your job application and it's full of basic language errors then I absolutely will judge you for that.

pinephoneguy 5y ago

Good writing is probably like dressing up. It's not just what people think of you, you think of yourself better too.