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Years ago I worked at a company where many people were using Grammarly. One of the top devs took a look at it, and saw that the text was sent to Grammarly's ser

Years ago I worked at a company where many people were using Grammarly. One of the top devs took a look at it, and saw that the text was sent to Grammarly's server unencrypted and warned everyone not to use it. Some still did. At my previous engagement, a large number of staff spoke English as a second or third language, and Grammarly was prevalent. Even as a native English speaker, they wanted me to use it as a sort of proof reader. I'll admit that it caught some of my dumber mistakes, but I never felt comfortable using it. I could have proof-read my work better is all. Perhaps if I wasn't given mind-numbing work, the quality would have been better.

HPsquared 5y ago
What does it even offer that MS Word doesn't? Word has all sorts of grammar and style checking.
- CGamesPlay 5y ago
  The obvious one: integration with every text box on your system.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - dylan604 5y ago
    Which is exactly the very very scary prospect of the thing. Giving Word this ability while using Word makes sense. Giving some other software access to 100% of everything that occurs on the system is very unnerving. <shudder>
- gnicholas 5y ago
  For all the years that I used Word, its grammar checker used incorrect rules for when to use "which" and "that". This issue may be fixed now, but I would never trust a grammar checker with such a lousy track record for basic issues like which/that.
ctennis1 5y ago
My previous role was at a public facing ecommerce site. One day I started noticing a lot of public traffic to internal administrative endpoints that were failing - likely bots, but also to URLs that bots would have never known existed. Urls that only someone internal to the company would even know existed, due to the complex way they were crafted. It was very concerning. We spent a LOT of time tracking down, and finally realized that the "bot" traffic was coming about 30 minutes after one of our employees legitimated visited the site. We found that user was using grammarly. Once we deactivated grammarly, all of the bot traffic stopped. As best as I could tell, every URL that particular person went to in their browsers, grammarly had a service about 30 minutes later that would try and hit the url directly and ascertain what was there. Haven't been on the crusade against it ever since.
- altdataseller 5y ago
  Why is Grammarly keeping track of the urls you visit when it has nothing to do with checking your grammar?
  - BbzzbB 5y ago
    I mostly wonder how? Is it an extension or program? I thought it was just a website where you can paste in a text-box for proof reading, and that sort of website shouldn't be able to track you everywhere afterwards, right?
    - skellera 5y ago
      It’s also a browser extension and extension for things like Microsoft Word. I think it’s fine if you use the website with information you don’t mind sharing but their extensions are reading everything you write.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - lozenge 5y ago
    Are you writing blog posts or message board comments? Are you on social media? Writing to one person or many? Are you writing for financial, health, tourist industries, or for your academic qualifications? To entertain, persuade or inform? A screenshot of the page can be reviewed and classified later. All to improve the service, of course. You know, what they say in the privacy policy. (Note: I have no insider information)
boppo1 5y ago
> wanted me to use it as a sort of proof reader. I can't imagine working in a place like this. I often write with some unusual but perfectly valid grammar constructions that are a result of being well read. Running what I've written, the codification of my thoughts, through a statistical homogenization machine is dystopian in a way I had never imagined. What kind of business was it? Imagine running famous writers through this thing, even if they're just journalists. Gross. I'm gonna run Moby Dick through Grammarly later and see what it has to say.
- Spivak 5y ago
  You're missing the value-prop of Grammarly -- to help someone who doesn't know write more like a fluent native English speaker. Helping someone write "more average" is exactly the point until they're fluent enough to know when and how to break the rules. Wait until you find out about the 5 paragraph essay that's taught in HS that follows this model.
  - dathinab 5y ago
    > who doesn't know write In my experience it doesn't. It helps people who are already reasonable good at writing English to write slightly better. Through only if their writing is limited to "business" English. For e.g. papers it's in my experience a catastrophe. There are also multiple categories of errors it can't cope with and does bad recommendation for. It's the kinda of errors I'm doing a lot. Maybe due to having some dyslexia, maybe because it's my second language, or maybe because my brain thinks slightly different (not joking; Luckily it's just different, not worse.).
    - anonymousisme 5y ago
      Ten years ago I went back to school and finished my BS. All of the instructors required us to run our work through a plagiarism checker and certify that it was our original work when turned in. The plagiarism checker was part of a suite of tools that included a grammar checker, and some instructors used the grammar checker themselves when grading student work. I always viewed the grammar checker as a crutch and only used it when required, but some students I worked with on team projects were obsessed with getting no warnings from the grammar check. There were a few ESL students that produced almost unintelligible work that had passed grammar check, and they argued with me when I tried to help them. My best experience was when one instructor ran my work through the grammar check and then sent me the graded paper (A) which included his long critique of the changes the grammar checker had recommended.
registeredcorn 5y ago
So, both of my phones have the following keyboard option: "Suggest text corrections Tap words or phrases underlined in green or tap the more menu icon when you see a green dot, to review grammar and writing suggestions. Powered by Grammarly" Does this mean that if I have text correction turned on while using the keyboard on my phone, because it is "powered by grammarly", it will be sending unencrypted information to Grammarly? Personally, I couldn't care less if some giant company is reading my information, but I don't want that transmission being sent unencrypted. Edit: I should mention that this is not an app that I have installed on my phone. This is literally just the text prediction for my keyboard by default.
- andrewl-hn 5y ago
  Yes, all your text is being sent to Grammarly servers. It's done over HTTPS, so no third party can see what you type in, only you and Grammarly see your texts.
  - stjohnswarts 5y ago
    That's really bad actually. Especially if they are storing it away in a database associated with your unique ID for surveillance for 3rd party companies and the government.
  - TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
    …until there is a security breach at grammarly
  - registeredcorn 5y ago
    Hmm, so if I understand things correctly: The means of transmitting that information is (supposed to be) secure, but the information within it - if the means of transmission (HTTPS) is compromised in any way - means a third party would then be able to read that information. Right?
    - Dma54rhs 5y ago
      Yes and grammarly obviously reads it, since it works over the Internet. Do they store it? Probably not but read their TOS and obviously you have to trust them as well.
_8j50 5y ago
I feel like I can't function without it. Grammar mistakes can be seen very badly by others. If only being able to understand the other person was sufficient.
- TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
  I have a relative with severe dyslexia who is a native English speaker. I wonder if grammarly could help him, even with things like spelling, too.
  - _8j50 5y ago
    It does, it's not just that though, it also helps with picking the right words and phrases for your target audience and what type if a message you are writing.
    - uoaei 5y ago
      Feedback loops? In my product copy?
- ahmed_ds 5y ago
  Grammarly has become a crutch and I am having a hard time finding an alternative. This is my method to write grammar sensitive content - - Write initial draft in notepad - Review the document - Paste content into grammarly - Review their suggestions - Review the content one last time. I just couldn't find anything that is non obtrusive and secure. Edit: I read through the article. My method seems to be the most secure way to use grammarly. But I am deleting the extension and the app.
  - AhtiK 5y ago
    I've been using ProWritingAid instead of Grammarly. They have discount deals every once in a while, incl the Lifetime sub.
pedrovhb 5y ago
> the text was sent to Grammarly's server unencrypted What does this mean exactly? That they were using HTTP instead of HTTPS, or some custom unencrypted format?
- bdcravens 5y ago
  It may have nothing to do with the protocol. It can mean that everything Grammarly receives, no matter how transmitted, is unencrypted, in the same sense that this comment I sent to HN is. Of course this makes sense, but I think the difference is in the expectation of what is and isn't sent.
1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago
I only know this company as the annoying YouTube pre-roll ad company. Any company that needs to advertise on YouTube that heavily raises red flags, IMO. Not surprising to hear they are cretins. For what purpose do they use the keylogging data. Doubtful they tell their customers all the exact details. "We use the data to improve the service." Gimme a break.
- jxramos 5y ago
  I'm starting to form a really negative impression of YouTube ads as well. Lots of scammy stuff all over the place. I'm kind of intrigued by all the "This young scientist invented ...", "This single father came up with a solution that his boss wouldn't give freedom to explore and so he broke out on his own to improve the world...". All these thin and exceptionally vague human interest stories filled with anonymous non-identifying biographical information leading up to some purported great product. At first I was fooled by those productions since they had some non-zero amount of polish to them that looking back I realize is professional stock footage of some kind. Now I know it's junk faceless import products pretty much that are being peddled. There's a whole genre to them and it's funny now to see past them immediately when they appear, but irritating too.
- ornornor 5y ago
  Who still sees YouTube ads (or any ad for that matter) on todays web? I’m thinking anyone using the web without an adblocker is either a masochist or a fervent disciple of the “adtech” industry.
  - 1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago
    "Who still sees YouTube ads (or any ad for that matter) on today's web?" Someone testing homegrown methods of blocking online advertising traffic on their own network. I never see ads except when testing. I do not use an adblocker for downloading and watching YouTube videos. I use methods that work outside the browser. Adblockers require "modern", graphical web browsers. "Modern", graphical web browsers are funded by online advertising. I do not require a browser for accessing YouTUbe.
maxloh 5y ago
Doesn't HTTPS encrypt your traffic to Grammarly's server?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- iamacyborg 5y ago
  Why would that matter? The traffic is encrypted in transit but still received as unencrypted plain text by Grammarly.
drran 5y ago
Years ago, you used something else instead of Grammarly.

HPsquared 5y ago

What does it even offer that MS Word doesn't? Word has all sorts of grammar and style checking.

CGamesPlay 5y ago
The obvious one: integration with every text box on your system.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- dylan604 5y ago
  Which is exactly the very very scary prospect of the thing. Giving Word this ability while using Word makes sense. Giving some other software access to 100% of everything that occurs on the system is very unnerving. <shudder>
gnicholas 5y ago
For all the years that I used Word, its grammar checker used incorrect rules for when to use "which" and "that". This issue may be fixed now, but I would never trust a grammar checker with such a lousy track record for basic issues like which/that.

ctennis1 5y ago

My previous role was at a public facing ecommerce site. One day I started noticing a lot of public traffic to internal administrative endpoints that were failing - likely bots, but also to URLs that bots would have never known existed. Urls that only someone internal to the company would even know existed, due to the complex way they were crafted. It was very concerning. We spent a LOT of time tracking down, and finally realized that the "bot" traffic was coming about 30 minutes after one of our employees legitimated visited the site. We found that user was using grammarly. Once we deactivated grammarly, all of the bot traffic stopped. As best as I could tell, every URL that particular person went to in their browsers, grammarly had a service about 30 minutes later that would try and hit the url directly and ascertain what was there. Haven't been on the crusade against it ever since.

altdataseller 5y ago
Why is Grammarly keeping track of the urls you visit when it has nothing to do with checking your grammar?
- BbzzbB 5y ago
  I mostly wonder how? Is it an extension or program? I thought it was just a website where you can paste in a text-box for proof reading, and that sort of website shouldn't be able to track you everywhere afterwards, right?
  - skellera 5y ago
    It’s also a browser extension and extension for things like Microsoft Word. I think it’s fine if you use the website with information you don’t mind sharing but their extensions are reading everything you write.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- lozenge 5y ago
  Are you writing blog posts or message board comments? Are you on social media? Writing to one person or many? Are you writing for financial, health, tourist industries, or for your academic qualifications? To entertain, persuade or inform? A screenshot of the page can be reviewed and classified later. All to improve the service, of course. You know, what they say in the privacy policy. (Note: I have no insider information)

boppo1 5y ago

> wanted me to use it as a sort of proof reader. I can't imagine working in a place like this. I often write with some unusual but perfectly valid grammar constructions that are a result of being well read. Running what I've written, the codification of my thoughts, through a statistical homogenization machine is dystopian in a way I had never imagined. What kind of business was it? Imagine running famous writers through this thing, even if they're just journalists. Gross. I'm gonna run Moby Dick through Grammarly later and see what it has to say.

Spivak 5y ago
You're missing the value-prop of Grammarly -- to help someone who doesn't know write more like a fluent native English speaker. Helping someone write "more average" is exactly the point until they're fluent enough to know when and how to break the rules. Wait until you find out about the 5 paragraph essay that's taught in HS that follows this model.
- dathinab 5y ago
  > who doesn't know write In my experience it doesn't. It helps people who are already reasonable good at writing English to write slightly better. Through only if their writing is limited to "business" English. For e.g. papers it's in my experience a catastrophe. There are also multiple categories of errors it can't cope with and does bad recommendation for. It's the kinda of errors I'm doing a lot. Maybe due to having some dyslexia, maybe because it's my second language, or maybe because my brain thinks slightly different (not joking; Luckily it's just different, not worse.).
  - anonymousisme 5y ago
    Ten years ago I went back to school and finished my BS. All of the instructors required us to run our work through a plagiarism checker and certify that it was our original work when turned in. The plagiarism checker was part of a suite of tools that included a grammar checker, and some instructors used the grammar checker themselves when grading student work. I always viewed the grammar checker as a crutch and only used it when required, but some students I worked with on team projects were obsessed with getting no warnings from the grammar check. There were a few ESL students that produced almost unintelligible work that had passed grammar check, and they argued with me when I tried to help them. My best experience was when one instructor ran my work through the grammar check and then sent me the graded paper (A) which included his long critique of the changes the grammar checker had recommended.

registeredcorn 5y ago

So, both of my phones have the following keyboard option: "Suggest text corrections Tap words or phrases underlined in green or tap the more menu icon when you see a green dot, to review grammar and writing suggestions. Powered by Grammarly" Does this mean that if I have text correction turned on while using the keyboard on my phone, because it is "powered by grammarly", it will be sending unencrypted information to Grammarly? Personally, I couldn't care less if some giant company is reading my information, but I don't want that transmission being sent unencrypted. Edit: I should mention that this is not an app that I have installed on my phone. This is literally just the text prediction for my keyboard by default.

andrewl-hn 5y ago
Yes, all your text is being sent to Grammarly servers. It's done over HTTPS, so no third party can see what you type in, only you and Grammarly see your texts.
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  That's really bad actually. Especially if they are storing it away in a database associated with your unique ID for surveillance for 3rd party companies and the government.
- TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
  …until there is a security breach at grammarly
- registeredcorn 5y ago
  Hmm, so if I understand things correctly: The means of transmitting that information is (supposed to be) secure, but the information within it - if the means of transmission (HTTPS) is compromised in any way - means a third party would then be able to read that information. Right?
  - Dma54rhs 5y ago
    Yes and grammarly obviously reads it, since it works over the Internet. Do they store it? Probably not but read their TOS and obviously you have to trust them as well.

_8j50 5y ago

I feel like I can't function without it. Grammar mistakes can be seen very badly by others. If only being able to understand the other person was sufficient.

TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
I have a relative with severe dyslexia who is a native English speaker. I wonder if grammarly could help him, even with things like spelling, too.
- _8j50 5y ago
  It does, it's not just that though, it also helps with picking the right words and phrases for your target audience and what type if a message you are writing.
  - uoaei 5y ago
    Feedback loops? In my product copy?
ahmed_ds 5y ago
Grammarly has become a crutch and I am having a hard time finding an alternative. This is my method to write grammar sensitive content - - Write initial draft in notepad - Review the document - Paste content into grammarly - Review their suggestions - Review the content one last time. I just couldn't find anything that is non obtrusive and secure. Edit: I read through the article. My method seems to be the most secure way to use grammarly. But I am deleting the extension and the app.
- AhtiK 5y ago
  I've been using ProWritingAid instead of Grammarly. They have discount deals every once in a while, incl the Lifetime sub.

pedrovhb 5y ago

> the text was sent to Grammarly's server unencrypted What does this mean exactly? That they were using HTTP instead of HTTPS, or some custom unencrypted format?

bdcravens 5y ago
It may have nothing to do with the protocol. It can mean that everything Grammarly receives, no matter how transmitted, is unencrypted, in the same sense that this comment I sent to HN is. Of course this makes sense, but I think the difference is in the expectation of what is and isn't sent.

1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago

I only know this company as the annoying YouTube pre-roll ad company. Any company that needs to advertise on YouTube that heavily raises red flags, IMO. Not surprising to hear they are cretins. For what purpose do they use the keylogging data. Doubtful they tell their customers all the exact details. "We use the data to improve the service." Gimme a break.

jxramos 5y ago
I'm starting to form a really negative impression of YouTube ads as well. Lots of scammy stuff all over the place. I'm kind of intrigued by all the "This young scientist invented ...", "This single father came up with a solution that his boss wouldn't give freedom to explore and so he broke out on his own to improve the world...". All these thin and exceptionally vague human interest stories filled with anonymous non-identifying biographical information leading up to some purported great product. At first I was fooled by those productions since they had some non-zero amount of polish to them that looking back I realize is professional stock footage of some kind. Now I know it's junk faceless import products pretty much that are being peddled. There's a whole genre to them and it's funny now to see past them immediately when they appear, but irritating too.
ornornor 5y ago
Who still sees YouTube ads (or any ad for that matter) on todays web? I’m thinking anyone using the web without an adblocker is either a masochist or a fervent disciple of the “adtech” industry.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago
  "Who still sees YouTube ads (or any ad for that matter) on today's web?" Someone testing homegrown methods of blocking online advertising traffic on their own network. I never see ads except when testing. I do not use an adblocker for downloading and watching YouTube videos. I use methods that work outside the browser. Adblockers require "modern", graphical web browsers. "Modern", graphical web browsers are funded by online advertising. I do not require a browser for accessing YouTUbe.

maxloh 5y ago

Doesn't HTTPS encrypt your traffic to Grammarly's server?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
iamacyborg 5y ago
Why would that matter? The traffic is encrypted in transit but still received as unencrypted plain text by Grammarly.

drran 5y ago

Years ago, you used something else instead of Grammarly.