5 ms·

Totally agree, we already have a generation of folks who don't know how to spell without the crutch of a spell-checker (I include myself as a victim), does Gram

Totally agree, we already have a generation of folks who don't know how to spell without the crutch of a spell-checker (I include myself as a victim), does Grammarly produce even worse outcomes? The one caveat here (which I try to cover in this post) is there are definitely people who suffer from things like dyslexia who heavily rely on these types of tools to be able to communicate confidently. In that way, they are very useful.

rhino369 5y ago
I use it, but only as a suggestion.
beambot 5y ago
Even worse: entirely new language primitives based on 10wpm mobile keyboards.
- Spivak 5y ago
  I mean "txt" speak is something only my parents still use. There are some shortenings like omw, ngl, ikr but they're not inventing new words. I mean hell if this is the straw than the internet ruined that before I was born -- tldr, imho, afaik, mfw, /s.
  - beambot 5y ago
    Heh, now it's just emojis and memes for communication.
- adhesive_wombat 5y ago
  Despite the moral panic over the OG mobile keyboards in the noughties (remember the breathless "kids these days write txt spk, m8 in their English exams" headlines every year?), the pandemic of inability to "write good" never actually materialised among Millenials. Indeed, it has been suggested that reductions like "wait" to "w8" even represent the same kind of phonological awareness of language that's correlated with better spelling.
  - kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
    The same thing happened in the 19th century when coded abbreviations to save money on telegrams became a fad and infected everyday writing. Newspapers and periodicals both celebrated and decried them. Civilization didn't collapse. TTFN.
    - LAC-Tech 5y ago
      Well WWI happened towards the very end of the telegraph age, so civilisation did collapse.
      - adhesive_wombat 5y ago
        What could be more civilised than murdering thousands at a time with science (e.g. gas attacks and aviation)?
leetcrew 5y ago
does it actually matter that people don't all the grammar rules or how to spell things? an english sentence contains a lot of parity data. when you do know all the rules, it can be painful to see the mistakes people make, but confusing "principle" with "principal" or using "who" when you should have used "whom" doesn't really obscure the meaning of the sentence. when it comes to formal correspondence, spellcheck is always there to help. or better yet, get a copywriter or technical writer to help you and go back to your main responsibilities.
- apazzolini 5y ago
  Yes, clarity and grammar matter. For example, with your lack of capitalization, I wouldn't know if you were trying to help your Uncle Jack off a horse or your uncle jack off a horse.
  - NateEag 5y ago
    Though no one has ever written either of those sentences for any reason other than to put up a strawman to tear down in their defense of grammar. I'm a fan of learning grammar well, to be clear, and wish mine were better, but this is not a good argument for grammar mattering.
  - leetcrew 5y ago
    okay, you can also come up with plenty of examples of ambiguous parses that don't require violating any grammar rules. fortunately humans are a bit more intelligent than compilers and can use their knowledge of context to settle on the more reasonable interpretation.
    - jamiek88 5y ago
      But why make other humans do extra work to parse you? It’s arrogant in the extreme to say ‘that’s good enough you figure it out’. Even scanning text is jarring when the rules aren’t followed, takes extra time to comprehend and adds to the minor irritants of daily life and will have people judging you, even subconsciously, as unintelligent.
syshum 5y ago
I know, we should also get rid of Calculators because people should just do all math in there head Hell let get rid of computers as well, people should just do everything manually, if you need to communicate drive to the person an talk to them, if you need to write something get out the hammer, chisel and rock... </endsarcasm> No Computers, Spell Check, nor grammar check has not ruined civilization or made people stop learning things...
- Barrin92 5y ago
  we use calculators because you can't do the kind of arithmetic in your head that calculators are made to perform, and because random arithmetic isn't conducive to understanding math. If you can't add two single digit numbers any more I'd start to be concerned. Having a proper understanding of grammar and spelling is relevant even in verbal communication. Tools should be used to augment human capacity, not used as an excuse to justify atrophy of basic skills.
  - sacrosancty 5y ago
    You can see that's false by the existence of languages with simpler grammar than English whose users are still able to function to as high or a higher level than English speakers. Some of the grammar in English is redundant. We shouldn't waste our brainpower on it any more than on mental arithmetic/etc.
    - Barrin92 5y ago
      I don't necessarily disagree but that doesn't have much to do with my point. Simple or complicated grammar, you as a person having command of it rather than outsourcing it to a tool is a skill you need often. It's irritating how often people even confuse "your" and "you're" nowadays. Some simplifications are harmless but plenty of them can change meaning. And it seems like texting and autocompletion makes people care less and less.

rhino369 5y ago

I use it, but only as a suggestion.

beambot 5y ago

Even worse: entirely new language primitives based on 10wpm mobile keyboards.

Spivak 5y ago
I mean "txt" speak is something only my parents still use. There are some shortenings like omw, ngl, ikr but they're not inventing new words. I mean hell if this is the straw than the internet ruined that before I was born -- tldr, imho, afaik, mfw, /s.
- beambot 5y ago
  Heh, now it's just emojis and memes for communication.
adhesive_wombat 5y ago
Despite the moral panic over the OG mobile keyboards in the noughties (remember the breathless "kids these days write txt spk, m8 in their English exams" headlines every year?), the pandemic of inability to "write good" never actually materialised among Millenials. Indeed, it has been suggested that reductions like "wait" to "w8" even represent the same kind of phonological awareness of language that's correlated with better spelling.
- kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
  The same thing happened in the 19th century when coded abbreviations to save money on telegrams became a fad and infected everyday writing. Newspapers and periodicals both celebrated and decried them. Civilization didn't collapse. TTFN.
  - LAC-Tech 5y ago
    Well WWI happened towards the very end of the telegraph age, so civilisation did collapse.
    - adhesive_wombat 5y ago
      What could be more civilised than murdering thousands at a time with science (e.g. gas attacks and aviation)?

leetcrew 5y ago

does it actually matter that people don't all the grammar rules or how to spell things? an english sentence contains a lot of parity data. when you do know all the rules, it can be painful to see the mistakes people make, but confusing "principle" with "principal" or using "who" when you should have used "whom" doesn't really obscure the meaning of the sentence. when it comes to formal correspondence, spellcheck is always there to help. or better yet, get a copywriter or technical writer to help you and go back to your main responsibilities.

apazzolini 5y ago
Yes, clarity and grammar matter. For example, with your lack of capitalization, I wouldn't know if you were trying to help your Uncle Jack off a horse or your uncle jack off a horse.
- NateEag 5y ago
  Though no one has ever written either of those sentences for any reason other than to put up a strawman to tear down in their defense of grammar. I'm a fan of learning grammar well, to be clear, and wish mine were better, but this is not a good argument for grammar mattering.
- leetcrew 5y ago
  okay, you can also come up with plenty of examples of ambiguous parses that don't require violating any grammar rules. fortunately humans are a bit more intelligent than compilers and can use their knowledge of context to settle on the more reasonable interpretation.
  - jamiek88 5y ago
    But why make other humans do extra work to parse you? It’s arrogant in the extreme to say ‘that’s good enough you figure it out’. Even scanning text is jarring when the rules aren’t followed, takes extra time to comprehend and adds to the minor irritants of daily life and will have people judging you, even subconsciously, as unintelligent.

syshum 5y ago

I know, we should also get rid of Calculators because people should just do all math in there head Hell let get rid of computers as well, people should just do everything manually, if you need to communicate drive to the person an talk to them, if you need to write something get out the hammer, chisel and rock... </endsarcasm> No Computers, Spell Check, nor grammar check has not ruined civilization or made people stop learning things...

Barrin92 5y ago
we use calculators because you can't do the kind of arithmetic in your head that calculators are made to perform, and because random arithmetic isn't conducive to understanding math. If you can't add two single digit numbers any more I'd start to be concerned. Having a proper understanding of grammar and spelling is relevant even in verbal communication. Tools should be used to augment human capacity, not used as an excuse to justify atrophy of basic skills.
- sacrosancty 5y ago
  You can see that's false by the existence of languages with simpler grammar than English whose users are still able to function to as high or a higher level than English speakers. Some of the grammar in English is redundant. We shouldn't waste our brainpower on it any more than on mental arithmetic/etc.
  - Barrin92 5y ago
    I don't necessarily disagree but that doesn't have much to do with my point. Simple or complicated grammar, you as a person having command of it rather than outsourcing it to a tool is a skill you need often. It's irritating how often people even confuse "your" and "you're" nowadays. Some simplifications are harmless but plenty of them can change meaning. And it seems like texting and autocompletion makes people care less and less.