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The inescapable fact is Germany intentionally put themselves in a position to be more dependent on Russian oil/gas with their shutdown of nuclear power. The pre

The inescapable fact is Germany intentionally put themselves in a position to be more dependent on Russian oil/gas with their shutdown of nuclear power. The previous US president made a point about how Germany's decision contradicts the purpose of NATO.[1] 1: https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1496917092351692810 https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1496917092351692810

danbruc 5y ago
Mutual economic relationships have been seen for decades as means to lower the risk of military conflicts with Russia. I am not sure how much this was considered for the nuclear exit, but in general Germany has more consciously chosen closer ties with Russia over seeking independence than it accidentally stumpled into them.
- dahdum 5y ago
  Germany has traded energy dependence on Russia for pharmaceutical, machinery, and car exports that Russia can get elsewhere. Interdependence works well but this appears quite one sided. In explains their inaction in part, though 40% of Germans also supported the annexation of Crimea.
tadfisher 5y ago
The decision doesn't contradict the _purpose_ of NATO, which is a fairly straightforward military alliance. It does impact the _effectiveness_ of NATO, because one of its member states is economically dependent on a non-member state with a high likelihood of conflict. Trump is saying that NATO shouldn't exist because of this intertwinement, and there's a sentiment going around that NATO caused the conflict by existing and forcing Putin's hand. Saying things like "the purpose of NATO is contradicted" plays into that narrative.
- myko 5y ago
  Interestingly, trump hated NATO and wanted to leave it. I firmly believe that his griping about issues like this, while accurate, was really a move to weaken the alliance and make the relationship between the US and European nations worse. He even planned on withdrawing from NATO in his second term, had he won the election: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-nato-south-korea-book-b1883457.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...
bakuninsbart 5y ago
There hasn't been a large change in imports of russian gas in Germany since the start of the Energiewende. [0] Gas is largely used for heating, electrical heating was never widespread and would not have been a viable alternative, even with keeping more nuclear power online, since it is uncompetititve without major subsidies. Anyway, gas consumption as a percentage of the total mix has been stable since before the start of the Energiewende. [1] Germany replaced some coal and nuclear with renewables and kept the rest stable while also substantially increasing total energy demand. Since your are quoting one of the worst people I've ever had the displeasure of having to listen to, it is curious that you ignore that the US is a major importer of russian resources, too, and is now silent now about boycotting russian imports. [2] It was all fun and games when the trade-off was that Germany would have to import expensive American natural gas, but biting in the sour apple yourself doesn't seem to be on the table, at least for now. [0] https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/exports/germany/mineral-fuels-oils-distillation-products https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/exports/germany/mineral-... [1] https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-consumption-and-power-mix-charts https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-c... [2] https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/market-insights/latest-news/oil/012122-russian-crude-exports-to-us-highlight-risks-to-ukraine-talks-for-biden https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/market-insights/latest-ne...
- chrisco255 5y ago
  By your own [2] above, Germany still consumes more than 67% of its energy from oil, gas and coal. Had it chosen to scale up nuclear instead of scale down nuclear, it would be less dependent on that 67%. France famously gets over 75% of its electricity from nuclear, and has plans to expand capacity by adding 6 more reactors [4] U.S. is not a major importer of Russian energy. U.S. is a net exporter of natural gas.[2]. Foreign imports for energy fell 30% under the previous admin [1]. Russia only accounts for 6.6% of our foreign imports [1]. And foreign imports have become less important for the U.S. as it has become a net exporter of oil & gas [3]. Under previous admin, our natural gas exports doubled [2]. [1] https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIMUS1&f=M https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=M... [2] https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/natural-gas/imports-and-exports.php https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/natural-gas/imports-and-... [3] https://dailyenergyinsider.com/news/29194-united-states-exported-more-petroleum-than-it-imported-in-2020-according-to-eia/ https://dailyenergyinsider.com/news/29194-united-states-expo... [4] https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/macron-presents-frances-long-term-nuclear-heavy-energy-plan/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/macron-presents...

danbruc 5y ago

Mutual economic relationships have been seen for decades as means to lower the risk of military conflicts with Russia. I am not sure how much this was considered for the nuclear exit, but in general Germany has more consciously chosen closer ties with Russia over seeking independence than it accidentally stumpled into them.

dahdum 5y ago
Germany has traded energy dependence on Russia for pharmaceutical, machinery, and car exports that Russia can get elsewhere. Interdependence works well but this appears quite one sided. In explains their inaction in part, though 40% of Germans also supported the annexation of Crimea.

tadfisher 5y ago

The decision doesn't contradict the _purpose_ of NATO, which is a fairly straightforward military alliance. It does impact the _effectiveness_ of NATO, because one of its member states is economically dependent on a non-member state with a high likelihood of conflict. Trump is saying that NATO shouldn't exist because of this intertwinement, and there's a sentiment going around that NATO caused the conflict by existing and forcing Putin's hand. Saying things like "the purpose of NATO is contradicted" plays into that narrative.

myko 5y ago
Interestingly, trump hated NATO and wanted to leave it. I firmly believe that his griping about issues like this, while accurate, was really a move to weaken the alliance and make the relationship between the US and European nations worse. He even planned on withdrawing from NATO in his second term, had he won the election: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-nato-south-korea-book-b1883457.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...

bakuninsbart 5y ago

There hasn't been a large change in imports of russian gas in Germany since the start of the Energiewende. [0] Gas is largely used for heating, electrical heating was never widespread and would not have been a viable alternative, even with keeping more nuclear power online, since it is uncompetititve without major subsidies. Anyway, gas consumption as a percentage of the total mix has been stable since before the start of the Energiewende. [1] Germany replaced some coal and nuclear with renewables and kept the rest stable while also substantially increasing total energy demand. Since your are quoting one of the worst people I've ever had the displeasure of having to listen to, it is curious that you ignore that the US is a major importer of russian resources, too, and is now silent now about boycotting russian imports. [2] It was all fun and games when the trade-off was that Germany would have to import expensive American natural gas, but biting in the sour apple yourself doesn't seem to be on the table, at least for now. [0] https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/exports/germany/mineral-fuels-oils-distillation-products https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/exports/germany/mineral-... [1] https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-consumption-and-power-mix-charts https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-c... [2] https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/market-insights/latest-news/oil/012122-russian-crude-exports-to-us-highlight-risks-to-ukraine-talks-for-biden https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/market-insights/latest-ne...

chrisco255 5y ago
By your own [2] above, Germany still consumes more than 67% of its energy from oil, gas and coal. Had it chosen to scale up nuclear instead of scale down nuclear, it would be less dependent on that 67%. France famously gets over 75% of its electricity from nuclear, and has plans to expand capacity by adding 6 more reactors [4] U.S. is not a major importer of Russian energy. U.S. is a net exporter of natural gas.[2]. Foreign imports for energy fell 30% under the previous admin [1]. Russia only accounts for 6.6% of our foreign imports [1]. And foreign imports have become less important for the U.S. as it has become a net exporter of oil & gas [3]. Under previous admin, our natural gas exports doubled [2]. [1] https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIMUS1&f=M https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=M... [2] https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/natural-gas/imports-and-exports.php https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/natural-gas/imports-and-... [3] https://dailyenergyinsider.com/news/29194-united-states-exported-more-petroleum-than-it-imported-in-2020-according-to-eia/ https://dailyenergyinsider.com/news/29194-united-states-expo... [4] https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/macron-presents-frances-long-term-nuclear-heavy-energy-plan/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/macron-presents...