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Look at what happened to Sweden. Gangs, bombings, no-go areas, zero integration, all in the span of a few years. Look at what's happening in France. In fact, if

Look at what happened to Sweden. Gangs, bombings, no-go areas, zero integration, all in the span of a few years. Look at what's happening in France. In fact, if you look anywhere where large migrations of non-culturally compatible populations have taken place, the result is always the same: mayhem.

retrac 5y ago
My interpretation is that the social problems around refugees is that they are refugees from poor places. Generally poor, young, uneducated and maybe traumatized. Here in Canada the largely upper middle class Middle Eastern immigrants integrate and assimilate fairly well. On the other hand, ethnic groups from East and South Europe where we received many refugees in the 80s and 90s still have a bit of a reputation for organised crime, much as the Italians got tarred 50 years ago. Because yes, a lot of those refugees got involved with it. What else is some young Russian or Serb with no job skills and limited language skills supposed to do in the Canadian job market back then? Bring in lots of poor uneducated people who don't speak the language and no amount of cultural compatibility will defuse the problems created.
- armitron 5y ago
  Education, language, skills are all attributes of "cultural compatibility".
  - ben_w 5y ago
    They are also relatively easily gained. The hard stuff is the stuff you don’t even know you need to ask about because everyone thinks it’s “common sense” without realising that’s just shorthand for “stuff I was taught without realising I was taught”.
tsol 5y ago
Do you have any actual evidence or are we supposed to just trust all these right wing nationalist taking points? It's funny that I never hear actual swedes lamenting this, just foreigners that seem to think Sweden has become a war zone because they took in immigrants.
- armitron 5y ago
  https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisakim/2021/10/22/swedens-brutal-gang-problem-heres-what-officials-blame-it-on/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisakim/2021/10/22/swedens-brut... "The chances of men between the ages 15 and 29 in Sweden getting shot were ten times higher than their counterparts in Germany, a 2018 study found, according to The Economist." "Eight in 10 shootings in Sweden were connected to organized crime, a study by the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention said. That ratio was “significantly” higher compared to other countries in Europe, the Guardian reported." "In 2018, Sweden had the highest gun deaths in Europe, surpassing Italy and eastern Europe, due to increased criminal gang activities, the Guardian said." "Deaths involving guns tripled in that country between 2012 and 2020, Bloomberg said." "Nearly 260 crimes in Sweden involved explosives in 2019, up 60% from a year earlier, Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention data showed." Forbes, Guardian, Economist not your usual "right wing nationalist" sources.
  - Apocryphon 5y ago
    Doesn't Germany also have a fair amount of immigration from those same countries?
  - yongjik 5y ago
    Sweden had 47 gun deaths in 2020, with 10.3 million people, which is 4.6 deaths per million. Massachusetts, the US state with least firearm deaths per capita, had 34 per million as of 2019. US average is 136.
ben_w 5y ago
“Gangs, bombings, no-go areas, zero integration” describes my childhood experience as a Brit reading the news about Northern Ireland in the 90s. And yet, I was raised Catholic, same as the very people I was — unreasonably, in retrospect — afraid of. And also, I now live in Berlin, capital of a country which took in roughly one million refugees very quickly not too long ago. Just as my childhood news was wildly unrepresentative yet technically correct, if the stories you refer to had been representative one would have expected the literal disintegration of the country I now live in before I moved here. (I now work with one of those refugees. I find him very impressive! Proper fluency in three languages).

retrac 5y ago

My interpretation is that the social problems around refugees is that they are refugees from poor places. Generally poor, young, uneducated and maybe traumatized. Here in Canada the largely upper middle class Middle Eastern immigrants integrate and assimilate fairly well. On the other hand, ethnic groups from East and South Europe where we received many refugees in the 80s and 90s still have a bit of a reputation for organised crime, much as the Italians got tarred 50 years ago. Because yes, a lot of those refugees got involved with it. What else is some young Russian or Serb with no job skills and limited language skills supposed to do in the Canadian job market back then? Bring in lots of poor uneducated people who don't speak the language and no amount of cultural compatibility will defuse the problems created.

armitron 5y ago
Education, language, skills are all attributes of "cultural compatibility".
- ben_w 5y ago
  They are also relatively easily gained. The hard stuff is the stuff you don’t even know you need to ask about because everyone thinks it’s “common sense” without realising that’s just shorthand for “stuff I was taught without realising I was taught”.

tsol 5y ago

Do you have any actual evidence or are we supposed to just trust all these right wing nationalist taking points? It's funny that I never hear actual swedes lamenting this, just foreigners that seem to think Sweden has become a war zone because they took in immigrants.

armitron 5y ago
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisakim/2021/10/22/swedens-brutal-gang-problem-heres-what-officials-blame-it-on/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisakim/2021/10/22/swedens-brut... "The chances of men between the ages 15 and 29 in Sweden getting shot were ten times higher than their counterparts in Germany, a 2018 study found, according to The Economist." "Eight in 10 shootings in Sweden were connected to organized crime, a study by the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention said. That ratio was “significantly” higher compared to other countries in Europe, the Guardian reported." "In 2018, Sweden had the highest gun deaths in Europe, surpassing Italy and eastern Europe, due to increased criminal gang activities, the Guardian said." "Deaths involving guns tripled in that country between 2012 and 2020, Bloomberg said." "Nearly 260 crimes in Sweden involved explosives in 2019, up 60% from a year earlier, Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention data showed." Forbes, Guardian, Economist not your usual "right wing nationalist" sources.
- Apocryphon 5y ago
  Doesn't Germany also have a fair amount of immigration from those same countries?
- yongjik 5y ago
  Sweden had 47 gun deaths in 2020, with 10.3 million people, which is 4.6 deaths per million. Massachusetts, the US state with least firearm deaths per capita, had 34 per million as of 2019. US average is 136.

ben_w 5y ago

“Gangs, bombings, no-go areas, zero integration” describes my childhood experience as a Brit reading the news about Northern Ireland in the 90s. And yet, I was raised Catholic, same as the very people I was — unreasonably, in retrospect — afraid of. And also, I now live in Berlin, capital of a country which took in roughly one million refugees very quickly not too long ago. Just as my childhood news was wildly unrepresentative yet technically correct, if the stories you refer to had been representative one would have expected the literal disintegration of the country I now live in before I moved here. (I now work with one of those refugees. I find him very impressive! Proper fluency in three languages).