11 ms·

Russian citizens like me will be hit hardest, as usual. Large institutions and wealthy individuals will find another ways to transfer money. Costs of goods and

Russian citizens like me will be hit hardest, as usual. Large institutions and wealthy individuals will find another ways to transfer money. Costs of goods and services will rise.

ex3ndr 5y ago
Yeah I just lost my business banking and can't anymore get payments from the states. But, most Russians support war, I don't care about them and ok with small inconvenience.
- hurflmurfl 5y ago
  I know this might be perceived as a flame-inviting response, but who are those "most Russians" that "support war". Even pretty patriotic people in my social circle don't support it. Now, of course, it might just be me and my circle, but the "majority supporting war" might also be someone's circle, and not really representative of reality. In any case, from what I see, most people are just afraid. Withdrawing cash, some stocking food. It's not like the west is watching a horror show, and the people in Russia are watching a comedy. Everyone's losing. I honestly don't know who's the winning party here. I don't really care much about the state of Russia, and maybe, just maybe the sanctions will have some positive effect; just wanted to say that "most Russians support war" is a very shabby argument in support of approving of punishing "most Russians".
daenz 5y ago
I was watching a mainstream news report (I'll try to find it and edit my comment) where the host and the guest were talking about the impact of economic sanctions. They said it's not intended to stop Russia, but to inflict pain on the citizens, so that they citizens will turn against leadership. In that moment, it really clicked for me how much normal people are pawns to be used in much larger games. And there apparently is no morality when dealing with pawns, unless it is convenient.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- m_ke 5y ago
  With all due respect Russian people are the only ones who can stop Putin.
  - daenz 5y ago
    That's my point. The ruling class is free to exploit, manipulate, and abuse the working class, up until they're really needed for something important, like bailing out banks, or pressuring another country's government. I guarantee we all share more in common with the working class from different cultures than we do with our own ruling class.
    - mcguire 5y ago
      I would submit that most of the commenters in this forum have more to do with the ruling class than with the working class. (The median personal income in the US is about $36,000/year. (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N))
      - daenz 5y ago
        1) Having more money than the median doesn't put in you in the ruling class. 2) How does the proportion of HN users that are ruling vs working class add to the conversation about not abusing the working class?
  - dmingod666 5y ago
    If the US citizens can't improve their own govt and get them to stop neverending wars, I think it's a tall order to expect citizens in a dictatorship to do it. Point isn't US bad -- point is, no easy way to affect change other than revolution which too ends up with bigger tyrants..
    - 5y ago
kgeist 5y ago
I have a VPS I bought at OVH to act as a VPN, does it mean I won't be able to access information freely on the Internet if SWIFT is cut (I use a Russian bank account)? Or maybe I can open a bank account in some neutral country?
- rozab 5y ago
  Even mainstream VPNs like NordVPN will take privacycoins like Monero
  - kgeist 5y ago
    NordVPN is blocked in Russia, as far as I know
- espadrine 5y ago
  If you make card payments, SWIFT won’t be what cuts the renewal. If you make transfers, it may be temporarily interrupted or slower while your bank shifts their integrations. They plausibly have either accounts at the ECB, or relations to a bank that does. There may be KYC hurdles to opening a EUR account online.
krisoft 5y ago
> Russian citizens like me will be hit hardest, as usual. Not to sound disrespectful, but I think it's the Ukrainian citizens who perished or will perish who "will be hit hardest". I know you have no personal choice in the matter, but still important to keep in mind the ongoing suffering.
- hurflmurfl 5y ago
  I believe the poster meant that normal people like him (and myself) will be hit the hardest [by the SWIFT cut-off (or other sanctions)] and the influential and wealthy will continue their act as they are prepared / wealthy enough to not care.
ivraatiems 5y ago
I'm sorry that this is the case, but, I'm pretty sure that's the idea. At this point, your government is not acting with anyone's best interest in mind, including that of its citizens. It's up to the rest of the world to make it clear what the consequences are for that, in the hopes that if your leaders don't change their mind on their own, you'll do it for them.
- Aunche 5y ago
  That's the propaganda used to justify sanctions, but historically, no government has been overthrown due to sanctions. The sanctioned country can just use the sanction as an example of hegemony, which isn't exactly inaccurate. What sanctions do accomplish is that they give you an avenue for more aggressive intervention. An example of this is America's sanctions against Imperial Japan before WWII.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > That's the propaganda used to justify sanctions, but historically, no government has been overthrown due to sanctions. Since the idea is to get governments to change their behavior and being overthrown is just one of the extreme tail risks that play in to motivating that behavioral change, that's neither surprising nor inconsistent with sanctions working.
  - mcguire 5y ago
    And the alternatives to sanctions are?
    - ivraatiems 5y ago
      If I understand the parent's argument, it's not that there are alternatives - it's that the actual goal of sanctions is to "rachet up" to more aggressive responses, possibly including military responses. I don't disagree that they can have this effect, but I really don't think that's the direction the US wants to go right now.
  - ivraatiems 5y ago
wara23arish 5y ago
IMO I think such acts only make the state stronger. People will be “cheaper” buy. Votes will be cheaper. It only helps consolidate the wealth in the target country and makes the massez more reliant on large institutions and wealthy individuals. I wish you best of luck in dealing with things to coms brother.
Imnimo 5y ago
War has costs for everyone. Consider these hardships doing your part to stop your country's aggression, and remember the Ukrainians have it much worse than you.
mlindner 5y ago
Russian citizens should be formenting anti-Putin thoughts in the general public. His popularity allows him to do this nonsense. If the sanctions help convince you such a thing is a good idea then they’re working as intended.

Russian citizens like me will be hit hardest, as usual. Large institutions and wealthy individuals will find another ways to transfer money. Costs of goods and services will rise.

ex3ndr 5y ago

Yeah I just lost my business banking and can't anymore get payments from the states. But, most Russians support war, I don't care about them and ok with small inconvenience.

hurflmurfl 5y ago
I know this might be perceived as a flame-inviting response, but who are those "most Russians" that "support war". Even pretty patriotic people in my social circle don't support it. Now, of course, it might just be me and my circle, but the "majority supporting war" might also be someone's circle, and not really representative of reality. In any case, from what I see, most people are just afraid. Withdrawing cash, some stocking food. It's not like the west is watching a horror show, and the people in Russia are watching a comedy. Everyone's losing. I honestly don't know who's the winning party here. I don't really care much about the state of Russia, and maybe, just maybe the sanctions will have some positive effect; just wanted to say that "most Russians support war" is a very shabby argument in support of approving of punishing "most Russians".

daenz 5y ago

I was watching a mainstream news report (I'll try to find it and edit my comment) where the host and the guest were talking about the impact of economic sanctions. They said it's not intended to stop Russia, but to inflict pain on the citizens, so that they citizens will turn against leadership. In that moment, it really clicked for me how much normal people are pawns to be used in much larger games. And there apparently is no morality when dealing with pawns, unless it is convenient.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
m_ke 5y ago
With all due respect Russian people are the only ones who can stop Putin.
- daenz 5y ago
  That's my point. The ruling class is free to exploit, manipulate, and abuse the working class, up until they're really needed for something important, like bailing out banks, or pressuring another country's government. I guarantee we all share more in common with the working class from different cultures than we do with our own ruling class.
  - mcguire 5y ago
    I would submit that most of the commenters in this forum have more to do with the ruling class than with the working class. (The median personal income in the US is about $36,000/year. (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N))
    - daenz 5y ago
      1) Having more money than the median doesn't put in you in the ruling class. 2) How does the proportion of HN users that are ruling vs working class add to the conversation about not abusing the working class?
- dmingod666 5y ago
  If the US citizens can't improve their own govt and get them to stop neverending wars, I think it's a tall order to expect citizens in a dictatorship to do it. Point isn't US bad -- point is, no easy way to affect change other than revolution which too ends up with bigger tyrants..
  - 5y ago

kgeist 5y ago

I have a VPS I bought at OVH to act as a VPN, does it mean I won't be able to access information freely on the Internet if SWIFT is cut (I use a Russian bank account)? Or maybe I can open a bank account in some neutral country?

rozab 5y ago
Even mainstream VPNs like NordVPN will take privacycoins like Monero
- kgeist 5y ago
  NordVPN is blocked in Russia, as far as I know
espadrine 5y ago
If you make card payments, SWIFT won’t be what cuts the renewal. If you make transfers, it may be temporarily interrupted or slower while your bank shifts their integrations. They plausibly have either accounts at the ECB, or relations to a bank that does. There may be KYC hurdles to opening a EUR account online.

krisoft 5y ago

> Russian citizens like me will be hit hardest, as usual. Not to sound disrespectful, but I think it's the Ukrainian citizens who perished or will perish who "will be hit hardest". I know you have no personal choice in the matter, but still important to keep in mind the ongoing suffering.

hurflmurfl 5y ago
I believe the poster meant that normal people like him (and myself) will be hit the hardest [by the SWIFT cut-off (or other sanctions)] and the influential and wealthy will continue their act as they are prepared / wealthy enough to not care.

ivraatiems 5y ago

I'm sorry that this is the case, but, I'm pretty sure that's the idea. At this point, your government is not acting with anyone's best interest in mind, including that of its citizens. It's up to the rest of the world to make it clear what the consequences are for that, in the hopes that if your leaders don't change their mind on their own, you'll do it for them.

Aunche 5y ago
That's the propaganda used to justify sanctions, but historically, no government has been overthrown due to sanctions. The sanctioned country can just use the sanction as an example of hegemony, which isn't exactly inaccurate. What sanctions do accomplish is that they give you an avenue for more aggressive intervention. An example of this is America's sanctions against Imperial Japan before WWII.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > That's the propaganda used to justify sanctions, but historically, no government has been overthrown due to sanctions. Since the idea is to get governments to change their behavior and being overthrown is just one of the extreme tail risks that play in to motivating that behavioral change, that's neither surprising nor inconsistent with sanctions working.
- mcguire 5y ago
  And the alternatives to sanctions are?
  - ivraatiems 5y ago
    If I understand the parent's argument, it's not that there are alternatives - it's that the actual goal of sanctions is to "rachet up" to more aggressive responses, possibly including military responses. I don't disagree that they can have this effect, but I really don't think that's the direction the US wants to go right now.
- ivraatiems 5y ago

wara23arish 5y ago

IMO I think such acts only make the state stronger. People will be “cheaper” buy. Votes will be cheaper. It only helps consolidate the wealth in the target country and makes the massez more reliant on large institutions and wealthy individuals. I wish you best of luck in dealing with things to coms brother.

Imnimo 5y ago

War has costs for everyone. Consider these hardships doing your part to stop your country's aggression, and remember the Ukrainians have it much worse than you.

mlindner 5y ago

Russian citizens should be formenting anti-Putin thoughts in the general public. His popularity allows him to do this nonsense. If the sanctions help convince you such a thing is a good idea then they’re working as intended.