14 ms·

Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago
An actual Bitcoin Maximalist conference is happening March 3-6 in Las Vegas. It is called the Unconfiscatable Bitcoin “not Blockchain” Conference.[0] In contrast, BTC Miami was where Ethereum was first announced. [0] https://unconfiscatable.com/ https://unconfiscatable.com/
- vlorch 5y ago
  i'll be there
- paulpauper 5y ago
  Bitcoin is unconfiscatable , but the catch is you must spend it in space
MR4D 5y ago
This is interesting... The linked article is titled "Cryptonomicon", and written by Will Stephenson, and a book with the same title was written by Neal Stephenson. Yet, no mention of Neal or his book in the article. So I wonder where he got the word for his title?
- danielvaughn 5y ago
  Right? I went in thinking it was about the book because it's been on my to-read list for a while.
  - SilasX 5y ago
    Hah, yeah, I was going to say, if this went to court, it would feel like a slam dunk case of trademark infringement or IP of some kind, due to consumer[1] confusion. [1] term of art in this context, not what I'd prefer they use.
    - wrycoder 5y ago
      I don't believe you can copyright titles.
      - SilasX 5y ago
        My comment refers to "trademark" or "IP of some kind", not copyright.
- webmaven 5y ago
  > The linked article is titled "Cryptonomicon", and written by Will Stephenson, and a book with the same title was written by Neal Stephenson. > Yet, no mention of Neal or his book in the article. So I wonder where he got the word for his title? Usually when I run across this sort of questionable title it turns out the editor was responsible, rather than the author.
- inasio 5y ago
  Definitely felt like bait, the word Cryptonomicon does not even show up in the (long) article even once. I was waiting for the reveal that his dad was Neal (worried when he said his dad was into Ayn Rand...), or that he himself was Neal.
- oriolid 5y ago
  With all recent Metaverse stuff, it seems that Neal Stephenson is public domain now. So many things on the Internet are based on Snow Crash and Diamond Age that maybe it's time to move to different book now.
  - DonHopkins 5y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29045605 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29045605 If Mark Zuckerberg trademarks "Metaverse", William Gibson should trademark "Mark Zuckerberg". https://www.wired.com/2015/04/virtual-reality-and-the-pioneers-of-cyberspace/ https://www.wired.com/2015/04/virtual-reality-and-the-pionee... >Virtual Reality and the Pioneers of Cyberspace: 25 years before Oculus, John Perry Barlow described what it was like “being in nothingness.” >[...] And they were ready to make a product. They’d made a promo video starring Timothy Leary. Gullichsen had even registered William Gibson’s term “cyberspace” as an Autodesk trademark, prompting an irritated Gibson to apply for trademark registration of the term “Eric Gullichsen.” By June, they had an implementation which, though clearly the Kitty Hawk version of the technology, endowed people with an instantaneous vision of the Concorde level. [...] moviesCyberspace: The New Explorers: Autodesk Demo Tape on Cyberspace with Timothy Leary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FC4UQDm_mQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FC4UQDm_mQ
- tedunangst 5y ago
  Probably the same place the other Stephenson got it. Crypto + /necro/nomicon = cryptonomicon.
  - lupire 5y ago
    no "necro" here. "nomicon" means "tome".
seibelj 5y ago
> In The Bitcoin Standard, Ammous blamed the Fed for the modern “breakdown of the family,” and for “perhaps most damagingly, the depletion of the soil of its nutrients, leading to ever-lower levels of nutrients in food.” He compared the art of the Renaissance, Classical, and Romantic periods, all financed properly with sound money, to the decadent culture of the twenty-first century, with its “animalistic noises’’ and “immediate sensory pleasures.’’ “It was hard money that financed Bach’s Brandenburg Concertos,” he wrote, “while easy money financed Miley Cyrus’s twerks.” It was, moreover, “no coincidence that the era of central bank-controlled money was inaugurated with the first world war in human history.” Here was a theory of everything, a moral case for Bitcoin that encompassed art and war and even the nutrients in our soil. (Ammous disdains what he calls “fiat food,” claiming his diet consists of “approximately 95% red meat, 5% other meats, and approximately zero plant matter.”) I un-ironically believe all of this, but when put in this way, it sounds crazy. But I believe it. Is it not curious that true fiat currency is a relatively recent phenomena, perhaps 100 years old in reality and 50 years officially, yet amazing discoveries, inventions, buildings, factories, art, etc. were all made before fiat currency? Fiat isn't a requirement nor an inevitability - it is a human invention, and one I personally see as a mistake.
- lapetitejort 5y ago
  You know what amazing discovery was made after fiat currency? Bitcoin. I think the human race still has something going for it.
- jandrese 5y ago
  "Wow, when you say it out loud it sounds crazy", followed by zero introspection.
- shralpmeister 5y ago
  Is it just me or does that read like a far-right, Christian, white supremacist screed?
  - burnoutgal 5y ago
    Yup, classic fascist rhetoric. It's not surprising they point to a woman being independent and expressing her sexuality as the example of "degenerate culture". The "other" (people of colour, women, queers) are producing art that represents our own experiences, which is a threat to their desired white hetero-patriarchal order. Never mind that Mozart wrote a ton of filthy shit. People have been obsessed with sex forever
Animats 5y ago
That's a great read. What's striking, in his description of the conference, is the total lack of any connection to real world activity. None of these people seem to be trying to get enough Bitcoin together to build a steel mill or a wafer fab or a smartphone factory or, indeed, any kind of startup that does something. Bitcoin is expected to somehow generate wealth without actually doing anything that generates revenue. All it can really do is move money from one group to another. The world changed this week. Things just got real. Russia is taking over a big chunk of eastern Europe by force. That's what real authoritarianism looks like. Not mask mandates. Over the next few months, the tolerance for bullshit, especially in politics, will go way down.
- once_inc 5y ago
  There are actually quite a few companies doing things with bitcoin that generate revenue. Bitcoin isn't supposed to make you money; it's supposed to be money. Dollars on their own don't generate revenue, nor is gold locked in a safe. Bitcoin has qualities that make it better than fiat and better than gold, at the cost of an established history. Perhaps the author just spoke to the wrong people, didn't get the fundamentals, or didn't ask fundamental questions.
  - uoaei 5y ago
    > Spoke to the wrong people. So either the conference didn't have the right people, or this journalist is shit at their job. Which implication do you claim?
  - majormajor 5y ago
    "Bitcoin is supposed to be money" isn't the only pro-crypto position out there. A lot of its current value is driven by people holding and purchasing it from a perspective including things like "this will be the new backing infrastructure for every transaction in the world" not just "this is digital gold."
  - wmf 5y ago
    Isn't the point of Bitcoin precisely that it naturally becomes more and more valuable? If people want money that doesn't make money they can use stablecoins.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
neonate 5y ago
http://web.archive.org/web/20220225160516/https://harpers.org/archive/2022/03/cryptonomicon-bitcoin-maximalists-miami/ http://web.archive.org/web/20220225160516/https://harpers.or... https://archive.is/QD1uO https://archive.is/QD1uO
Hendrikto 5y ago
> All I had wanted was a get-rich-quick scheme that actually worked And now you are disappointed. I get it. That does not discount the value of the underlying technology though.
gxqoz 5y ago
There was an FT long read recently that covered similar ground that I thought was a bit better. HN thread and archive link here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30213690 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30213690

An actual Bitcoin Maximalist conference is happening March 3-6 in Las Vegas. It is called the Unconfiscatable Bitcoin “not Blockchain” Conference.[0] In contrast, BTC Miami was where Ethereum was first announced. [0] https://unconfiscatable.com/ https://unconfiscatable.com/

vlorch 5y ago
i'll be there
paulpauper 5y ago
Bitcoin is unconfiscatable , but the catch is you must spend it in space

MR4D 5y ago

This is interesting... The linked article is titled "Cryptonomicon", and written by Will Stephenson, and a book with the same title was written by Neal Stephenson. Yet, no mention of Neal or his book in the article. So I wonder where he got the word for his title?

danielvaughn 5y ago
Right? I went in thinking it was about the book because it's been on my to-read list for a while.
- SilasX 5y ago
  Hah, yeah, I was going to say, if this went to court, it would feel like a slam dunk case of trademark infringement or IP of some kind, due to consumer[1] confusion. [1] term of art in this context, not what I'd prefer they use.
  - wrycoder 5y ago
    I don't believe you can copyright titles.
    - SilasX 5y ago
      My comment refers to "trademark" or "IP of some kind", not copyright.
webmaven 5y ago
> The linked article is titled "Cryptonomicon", and written by Will Stephenson, and a book with the same title was written by Neal Stephenson. > Yet, no mention of Neal or his book in the article. So I wonder where he got the word for his title? Usually when I run across this sort of questionable title it turns out the editor was responsible, rather than the author.
inasio 5y ago
Definitely felt like bait, the word Cryptonomicon does not even show up in the (long) article even once. I was waiting for the reveal that his dad was Neal (worried when he said his dad was into Ayn Rand...), or that he himself was Neal.
oriolid 5y ago
With all recent Metaverse stuff, it seems that Neal Stephenson is public domain now. So many things on the Internet are based on Snow Crash and Diamond Age that maybe it's time to move to different book now.
- DonHopkins 5y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29045605 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29045605 If Mark Zuckerberg trademarks "Metaverse", William Gibson should trademark "Mark Zuckerberg". https://www.wired.com/2015/04/virtual-reality-and-the-pioneers-of-cyberspace/ https://www.wired.com/2015/04/virtual-reality-and-the-pionee... >Virtual Reality and the Pioneers of Cyberspace: 25 years before Oculus, John Perry Barlow described what it was like “being in nothingness.” >[...] And they were ready to make a product. They’d made a promo video starring Timothy Leary. Gullichsen had even registered William Gibson’s term “cyberspace” as an Autodesk trademark, prompting an irritated Gibson to apply for trademark registration of the term “Eric Gullichsen.” By June, they had an implementation which, though clearly the Kitty Hawk version of the technology, endowed people with an instantaneous vision of the Concorde level. [...] moviesCyberspace: The New Explorers: Autodesk Demo Tape on Cyberspace with Timothy Leary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FC4UQDm_mQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FC4UQDm_mQ
tedunangst 5y ago
Probably the same place the other Stephenson got it. Crypto + /necro/nomicon = cryptonomicon.
- lupire 5y ago
  no "necro" here. "nomicon" means "tome".

seibelj 5y ago

> In The Bitcoin Standard, Ammous blamed the Fed for the modern “breakdown of the family,” and for “perhaps most damagingly, the depletion of the soil of its nutrients, leading to ever-lower levels of nutrients in food.” He compared the art of the Renaissance, Classical, and Romantic periods, all financed properly with sound money, to the decadent culture of the twenty-first century, with its “animalistic noises’’ and “immediate sensory pleasures.’’ “It was hard money that financed Bach’s Brandenburg Concertos,” he wrote, “while easy money financed Miley Cyrus’s twerks.” It was, moreover, “no coincidence that the era of central bank-controlled money was inaugurated with the first world war in human history.” Here was a theory of everything, a moral case for Bitcoin that encompassed art and war and even the nutrients in our soil. (Ammous disdains what he calls “fiat food,” claiming his diet consists of “approximately 95% red meat, 5% other meats, and approximately zero plant matter.”) I un-ironically believe all of this, but when put in this way, it sounds crazy. But I believe it. Is it not curious that true fiat currency is a relatively recent phenomena, perhaps 100 years old in reality and 50 years officially, yet amazing discoveries, inventions, buildings, factories, art, etc. were all made before fiat currency? Fiat isn't a requirement nor an inevitability - it is a human invention, and one I personally see as a mistake.

lapetitejort 5y ago
You know what amazing discovery was made after fiat currency? Bitcoin. I think the human race still has something going for it.
jandrese 5y ago
"Wow, when you say it out loud it sounds crazy", followed by zero introspection.
shralpmeister 5y ago
Is it just me or does that read like a far-right, Christian, white supremacist screed?
- burnoutgal 5y ago
  Yup, classic fascist rhetoric. It's not surprising they point to a woman being independent and expressing her sexuality as the example of "degenerate culture". The "other" (people of colour, women, queers) are producing art that represents our own experiences, which is a threat to their desired white hetero-patriarchal order. Never mind that Mozart wrote a ton of filthy shit. People have been obsessed with sex forever

Animats 5y ago

That's a great read. What's striking, in his description of the conference, is the total lack of any connection to real world activity. None of these people seem to be trying to get enough Bitcoin together to build a steel mill or a wafer fab or a smartphone factory or, indeed, any kind of startup that does something. Bitcoin is expected to somehow generate wealth without actually doing anything that generates revenue. All it can really do is move money from one group to another. The world changed this week. Things just got real. Russia is taking over a big chunk of eastern Europe by force. That's what real authoritarianism looks like. Not mask mandates. Over the next few months, the tolerance for bullshit, especially in politics, will go way down.

once_inc 5y ago
There are actually quite a few companies doing things with bitcoin that generate revenue. Bitcoin isn't supposed to make you money; it's supposed to be money. Dollars on their own don't generate revenue, nor is gold locked in a safe. Bitcoin has qualities that make it better than fiat and better than gold, at the cost of an established history. Perhaps the author just spoke to the wrong people, didn't get the fundamentals, or didn't ask fundamental questions.
- uoaei 5y ago
  > Spoke to the wrong people. So either the conference didn't have the right people, or this journalist is shit at their job. Which implication do you claim?
- majormajor 5y ago
  "Bitcoin is supposed to be money" isn't the only pro-crypto position out there. A lot of its current value is driven by people holding and purchasing it from a perspective including things like "this will be the new backing infrastructure for every transaction in the world" not just "this is digital gold."
- wmf 5y ago
  Isn't the point of Bitcoin precisely that it naturally becomes more and more valuable? If people want money that doesn't make money they can use stablecoins.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

neonate 5y ago

http://web.archive.org/web/20220225160516/https://harpers.org/archive/2022/03/cryptonomicon-bitcoin-maximalists-miami/ http://web.archive.org/web/20220225160516/https://harpers.or... https://archive.is/QD1uO https://archive.is/QD1uO

Hendrikto 5y ago

> All I had wanted was a get-rich-quick scheme that actually worked And now you are disappointed. I get it. That does not discount the value of the underlying technology though.

gxqoz 5y ago

There was an FT long read recently that covered similar ground that I thought was a bit better. HN thread and archive link here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30213690 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30213690