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I've had great success using the Pimsleur method. It involves 30 minute audio lessons using spaced repetition where you instinctively and intuitively build flu

I've had great success using the Pimsleur method. It involves 30 minute audio lessons using spaced repetition where you instinctively and intuitively build fluency over a restricted vocabulary. https://www.pimsleur.com/ https://www.pimsleur.com/ It worked for me, but it's expensive, and requires patience, as it advances somewhat slowly.

sanjayio 5y ago
How much did it cost you, if you don’t mind me asking?
- Jtsummers 5y ago
  Pimsleur isn't cheap, but if you have an Audible subscription you can (could? haven't checked in a while) get them at a steep discount compared to list price (through Pimsleur or any other source). When I bought the Spanish lessons a few years ago, buying the whole set via Audible this way (even considering the subscription cost, and combined with their credits) basically cut the cost in half (I actually did price it out because I nerd out with spreadsheets sometimes, but I don't recall the exact figures anymore). Also, check your local library. They may have access for you for free.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
wodenokoto 5y ago
What language did you learn and which did you already know? I’ve tried listening to some pimsleur tapes for Japanese and Chinese and it is hopeless even if you now a little bit already
- shaicoleman 5y ago
  I learned Spanish, Portuguese, French, Italian and Polish, I knew English and Hebrew. Every day I would usually repeat the previous day's lesson, and do a new lesson. For languages such as Japanese and Chinese, you'd probably need to repeat it more than that. It's recommended that you know about 80% of the answers before moving on to the next lesson.
- anon_123g987 5y ago
  It worked for me when I studied Japanese, German and Russian, even though the language of instruction is English, which is not my native language. The trick is that you have to follow the instructions, not just "listen to some tapes". The Japanese course consists of 3*30 units, the recommendation is one 30 minute unit every day. Do that, no more, no less. It's not magic, even if you master all 90 units, that's just a very basic spoken proficiency. But it gives you that result reliably.
  - golemiprague 5y ago
    They added another 2 units for Japanese, it is a good method, certainly teach you the basics and how to get by if you are in Japan. You get to learn all the important patterns and many common words, the last 2 units add more casual speaking which is very important since people use it a lot, even in formal situations. My only grief with them is that they try to push Japanese culture and therefore use words that are not that common or useful, like "embroidery". It would be much better if they used the most common words of the language rather than not very useful vocabulary for a beginner.
- popularonion 5y ago
  After a month or so on Pimsleur Mandarin as a total beginner, I was feeling pretty good about myself so I posted some voice recordings to get feedback. The feedback I got was along the lines of “uhh yeah we can’t really understand you bud”. That forced me to actually go learn Pinyin and learn about the j/q/x consonants. It took me about 2 months of obsessive practice to fix all the wrong pronunciations I taught myself from 1 month of Pimsleur. I think for any non Western European language, it’s much better to learn the basics the old fashioned way, especially the writing system and all the phonetic aspects of the language that don’t exist in English.
  - laurieg 5y ago
    The flip side is many people learn bad pronunciation habits because of reading. Things like Chinese tones for native English speakers or L/R for native Japanese speakers are always going to be hard and no single textbook, tape or app will fix that.
    - popularonion 5y ago
      I should be clear that I was watching YouTube videos as much as reading over those two months. And I was aware from my experience taking Spanish classes that a letter in English probably sounds different from the same letter in $LANGUAGE2. To be honest it’s hard for me to understand the “Pinyin teaches you wrong pronunciation” line of thinking. It so commonly repeated by so many people that there must be something to it, but not for me.
  - blip54321 5y ago
    This is a good place for an early intervention. I had u and the consonants explained to me around lesson 2-3, and I did fine. I practiced them every time, comparing myself to the speaker. I got railroaded on the difference between i and e. My chi and my che sound basically the same. This is little enough that people seem to understand well enough, but it's sometimes a bit awkward.
    - popularonion 5y ago
- blip54321 5y ago
  Pimsleur Chinese is excellent, but it takes patience to get into it, especially if you know a little bit already. There's a spaced repetition schedule, and you're not aligned when you start. Caveats: 1) You don't see spaced repetition working until a few weeks in, once you're on a schedule. 2) You can't have gaps, so you can't just start in the middle. 3) If you know stuff, you need to keep with it until it gets into new stuff. From there, it has to be done daily. If you miss 2-3 days, it's a chore to get back onto the schedule. I did it when I had a commute, so investing 30 minutes per day was easy. It added no time to my day, and by the end of 3 months, I knew /a lot/ of Chinese for not a lot of time invested. I was on-par with people who had roughly 2 years of college classes for speaking (but not reading or writing, which Pimsleur doesn't touch on). My accent was better too. Once I finished, there was nowhere to go. Nothing else was nearly as efficient. I kind of plateaued. There are better tools now; this was many years ago. I did the library/CDs route, so it was free. I highly recommend the same path. I haven't found anything good for writing Chinese. Does anyone have recommendations? Ideally, it'd leverage a pen tablet or iPad pencil or similar.
  - celie56 5y ago
    The best I've found for learning to write Chinese characters has been Skritter (https://skritter.com/ https://skritter.com/) If you are following a textbook, you can probably find pre-made decks of characters for that textbook.
  - queuebert 5y ago
    Skritter is pretty good for writing.
triceratops 5y ago
> it's expensive I got Pimsleur for free through my public library. It's even available through various public library apps.

sanjayio 5y ago

How much did it cost you, if you don’t mind me asking?

Jtsummers 5y ago
Pimsleur isn't cheap, but if you have an Audible subscription you can (could? haven't checked in a while) get them at a steep discount compared to list price (through Pimsleur or any other source). When I bought the Spanish lessons a few years ago, buying the whole set via Audible this way (even considering the subscription cost, and combined with their credits) basically cut the cost in half (I actually did price it out because I nerd out with spreadsheets sometimes, but I don't recall the exact figures anymore). Also, check your local library. They may have access for you for free.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

wodenokoto 5y ago

What language did you learn and which did you already know? I’ve tried listening to some pimsleur tapes for Japanese and Chinese and it is hopeless even if you now a little bit already

shaicoleman 5y ago
I learned Spanish, Portuguese, French, Italian and Polish, I knew English and Hebrew. Every day I would usually repeat the previous day's lesson, and do a new lesson. For languages such as Japanese and Chinese, you'd probably need to repeat it more than that. It's recommended that you know about 80% of the answers before moving on to the next lesson.
anon_123g987 5y ago
It worked for me when I studied Japanese, German and Russian, even though the language of instruction is English, which is not my native language. The trick is that you have to follow the instructions, not just "listen to some tapes". The Japanese course consists of 3*30 units, the recommendation is one 30 minute unit every day. Do that, no more, no less. It's not magic, even if you master all 90 units, that's just a very basic spoken proficiency. But it gives you that result reliably.
- golemiprague 5y ago
  They added another 2 units for Japanese, it is a good method, certainly teach you the basics and how to get by if you are in Japan. You get to learn all the important patterns and many common words, the last 2 units add more casual speaking which is very important since people use it a lot, even in formal situations. My only grief with them is that they try to push Japanese culture and therefore use words that are not that common or useful, like "embroidery". It would be much better if they used the most common words of the language rather than not very useful vocabulary for a beginner.
popularonion 5y ago
After a month or so on Pimsleur Mandarin as a total beginner, I was feeling pretty good about myself so I posted some voice recordings to get feedback. The feedback I got was along the lines of “uhh yeah we can’t really understand you bud”. That forced me to actually go learn Pinyin and learn about the j/q/x consonants. It took me about 2 months of obsessive practice to fix all the wrong pronunciations I taught myself from 1 month of Pimsleur. I think for any non Western European language, it’s much better to learn the basics the old fashioned way, especially the writing system and all the phonetic aspects of the language that don’t exist in English.
- laurieg 5y ago
  The flip side is many people learn bad pronunciation habits because of reading. Things like Chinese tones for native English speakers or L/R for native Japanese speakers are always going to be hard and no single textbook, tape or app will fix that.
  - popularonion 5y ago
    I should be clear that I was watching YouTube videos as much as reading over those two months. And I was aware from my experience taking Spanish classes that a letter in English probably sounds different from the same letter in $LANGUAGE2. To be honest it’s hard for me to understand the “Pinyin teaches you wrong pronunciation” line of thinking. It so commonly repeated by so many people that there must be something to it, but not for me.
- blip54321 5y ago
  This is a good place for an early intervention. I had u and the consonants explained to me around lesson 2-3, and I did fine. I practiced them every time, comparing myself to the speaker. I got railroaded on the difference between i and e. My chi and my che sound basically the same. This is little enough that people seem to understand well enough, but it's sometimes a bit awkward.
  - popularonion 5y ago
blip54321 5y ago
Pimsleur Chinese is excellent, but it takes patience to get into it, especially if you know a little bit already. There's a spaced repetition schedule, and you're not aligned when you start. Caveats: 1) You don't see spaced repetition working until a few weeks in, once you're on a schedule. 2) You can't have gaps, so you can't just start in the middle. 3) If you know stuff, you need to keep with it until it gets into new stuff. From there, it has to be done daily. If you miss 2-3 days, it's a chore to get back onto the schedule. I did it when I had a commute, so investing 30 minutes per day was easy. It added no time to my day, and by the end of 3 months, I knew /a lot/ of Chinese for not a lot of time invested. I was on-par with people who had roughly 2 years of college classes for speaking (but not reading or writing, which Pimsleur doesn't touch on). My accent was better too. Once I finished, there was nowhere to go. Nothing else was nearly as efficient. I kind of plateaued. There are better tools now; this was many years ago. I did the library/CDs route, so it was free. I highly recommend the same path. I haven't found anything good for writing Chinese. Does anyone have recommendations? Ideally, it'd leverage a pen tablet or iPad pencil or similar.
- celie56 5y ago
  The best I've found for learning to write Chinese characters has been Skritter (https://skritter.com/ https://skritter.com/) If you are following a textbook, you can probably find pre-made decks of characters for that textbook.
- queuebert 5y ago
  Skritter is pretty good for writing.

triceratops 5y ago

> it's expensive I got Pimsleur for free through my public library. It's even available through various public library apps.