5 ms·

I think that’s the point. He’s not very principled. He’d be the first modern hero we’ve had if he came back and forced the government to imprison him.

medstrom 5y ago
It'd make very little difference for anyone else if you get yourself arrested just because. Besides, he's done his part. Why require your heroes to continue working for you after their first act of heroism? That seems unfair.
- rajin444 5y ago
  > heroes to continue working for you after their first act of heroism This is exactly what a hero who is principled would do. This is the literal thing that separates them from regular people.
  - thatguy0900 5y ago
    Directly antogonizing the most powerful government and spy agencies in the world in order to tell the world about their wrongdoings is enough heroism for me. I don't need him to be a martyr. If he lives out the rest of his life safely in comfort I'd say he's earned it. Demanding anyone who's done a good thing to sacrifice themselves at the alter or cease being considered good will just lead to noone doing good things.
- signatoremo 5y ago
  The problem is those who consider him a hero continue to act like what he said since escaping to Russia as beacon of truth. If I had a choice I’d stay clear of current affair, because I couldn’t possibly be fair if I kept silence of what Russia has done
ne0flex 5y ago
And gain what exactly? You could argue that he acted on principle and went against the US govt resulting in him being "imprisoned" in Russia and unable to return home. In the end, he got nothing out of it. US gov't still conducts mass surveillance and your average consumer doesn't have much qualms about giving their data to corporations that can then sell it to the gov't. There was a segment where John Oliver met with Snowden in Russia. Oliver went around in NYC asking people about Snowden and most people didn't even recognize his name. Tbh, I wouldn't blame him for not wanting to go to prison just to be a hero to a bunch of random people that didn't care the first time around.
- rajin444 5y ago
  He’d be a martyr. Maybe it would work, maybe it wouldn’t. > I wouldn't blame him for not wanting to go to prison just to be a hero to a bunch of random people that didn't care the first time around. Yes. I don’t either. But this is why he isn’t principled.
  - brimble 5y ago
    Seems like he just doesn't adhere to the principles you'd like him to. That doesn't mean he has none.
  - floor2 5y ago
    This is weird trolling. You bring up a completely uninvolved, unrelated person and attack them for doing nothing. Maybe Dang will kill off this whole thread for being against HN guidelines. He's already a martyr. He's living the rest of his life in exile, under a microscope and under constant threat. The only people who would gain from him tweeting about these events are those who wish to see him harmed.
HotHotLava 5y ago
Feel free to cast the first stone after you've voluntarily submitted yourself to years of torture to defend your idealistic positions.
- MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  I think most people have enough sense to not do a vast, braindead document dump of classified material, and thus are able to escape all the ridiculous moral grandstanding that comes afterward as you try to appease your custodians.
AlexandrB 5y ago
I'm not sure why you expect some guy to give up more of his life for principles. I think he's done enough and having to flee your country for fear of reprisals is already no picnic. The people who have power to actually force change w.r.t. Putin are our western elected leaders and we should be holding them to account. > He’d be the first modern hero we’ve had if he came back and forced the government to imprison him. What about Chelsea Manning and Reality Winner? The fact that you forgot about them already suggests that such an act from Snowden would be ultimately meaningless.
tomc1985 5y ago
> I think that’s the point. He’s not very principled. That... is a statement. So, the guy that openly flouts decades of prison time and enemy-of-the-state status (from the richest first-world country with a nearly unlimited budget for tracking enemies down) to give the world definitive proof of American fuckery for the sake of morals and public good is "not very principled"? > He’d be the first modern hero No, he'd be yet another modern martyr. He's under no obligation to continue crusading. He has already done so much good, let the man retire. What is it with people expecting their idols to come out and openly crusade for the opinions they want to hear? Do you need a feeling of reassurance or something? Let your opinions stand on their own, you don't need a celebrity to validate them.
cute_boi 5y ago
what do you expect him to do? You are sitting on armchair and making some petty complains? Go to Russia and be vocal and you will know the consequence. Just see Julian Assange life? Please at least respect people who reveals the insidious evils at the cost of their freedom?
seanw444 5y ago
The dude exposed an attack on freedom and privacy. I ultimately respect him for that. I do not expect him to continue to one-up himself and ruin his life more and more until he's dead, or staring at a concrete wall in solitary. He's done a massive service to the people. Let him have at least the minimal freedom he has left. It's time for others to carry the torch.
ngngngng 5y ago
We can't all fight every single battle there is. And it's not unreasonable to do a cost/benefit analysis on something like this. Dude just wants to live his life, he's already sacrificed quite a bit.

medstrom 5y ago

It'd make very little difference for anyone else if you get yourself arrested just because. Besides, he's done his part. Why require your heroes to continue working for you after their first act of heroism? That seems unfair.

rajin444 5y ago
> heroes to continue working for you after their first act of heroism This is exactly what a hero who is principled would do. This is the literal thing that separates them from regular people.
- thatguy0900 5y ago
  Directly antogonizing the most powerful government and spy agencies in the world in order to tell the world about their wrongdoings is enough heroism for me. I don't need him to be a martyr. If he lives out the rest of his life safely in comfort I'd say he's earned it. Demanding anyone who's done a good thing to sacrifice themselves at the alter or cease being considered good will just lead to noone doing good things.
signatoremo 5y ago
The problem is those who consider him a hero continue to act like what he said since escaping to Russia as beacon of truth. If I had a choice I’d stay clear of current affair, because I couldn’t possibly be fair if I kept silence of what Russia has done

ne0flex 5y ago

And gain what exactly? You could argue that he acted on principle and went against the US govt resulting in him being "imprisoned" in Russia and unable to return home. In the end, he got nothing out of it. US gov't still conducts mass surveillance and your average consumer doesn't have much qualms about giving their data to corporations that can then sell it to the gov't. There was a segment where John Oliver met with Snowden in Russia. Oliver went around in NYC asking people about Snowden and most people didn't even recognize his name. Tbh, I wouldn't blame him for not wanting to go to prison just to be a hero to a bunch of random people that didn't care the first time around.

rajin444 5y ago
He’d be a martyr. Maybe it would work, maybe it wouldn’t. > I wouldn't blame him for not wanting to go to prison just to be a hero to a bunch of random people that didn't care the first time around. Yes. I don’t either. But this is why he isn’t principled.
- brimble 5y ago
  Seems like he just doesn't adhere to the principles you'd like him to. That doesn't mean he has none.
- floor2 5y ago
  This is weird trolling. You bring up a completely uninvolved, unrelated person and attack them for doing nothing. Maybe Dang will kill off this whole thread for being against HN guidelines. He's already a martyr. He's living the rest of his life in exile, under a microscope and under constant threat. The only people who would gain from him tweeting about these events are those who wish to see him harmed.

HotHotLava 5y ago

Feel free to cast the first stone after you've voluntarily submitted yourself to years of torture to defend your idealistic positions.

MisterBastahrd 5y ago
I think most people have enough sense to not do a vast, braindead document dump of classified material, and thus are able to escape all the ridiculous moral grandstanding that comes afterward as you try to appease your custodians.

AlexandrB 5y ago

I'm not sure why you expect some guy to give up more of his life for principles. I think he's done enough and having to flee your country for fear of reprisals is already no picnic. The people who have power to actually force change w.r.t. Putin are our western elected leaders and we should be holding them to account. > He’d be the first modern hero we’ve had if he came back and forced the government to imprison him. What about Chelsea Manning and Reality Winner? The fact that you forgot about them already suggests that such an act from Snowden would be ultimately meaningless.

tomc1985 5y ago

> I think that’s the point. He’s not very principled. That... is a statement. So, the guy that openly flouts decades of prison time and enemy-of-the-state status (from the richest first-world country with a nearly unlimited budget for tracking enemies down) to give the world definitive proof of American fuckery for the sake of morals and public good is "not very principled"? > He’d be the first modern hero No, he'd be yet another modern martyr. He's under no obligation to continue crusading. He has already done so much good, let the man retire. What is it with people expecting their idols to come out and openly crusade for the opinions they want to hear? Do you need a feeling of reassurance or something? Let your opinions stand on their own, you don't need a celebrity to validate them.

cute_boi 5y ago

what do you expect him to do? You are sitting on armchair and making some petty complains? Go to Russia and be vocal and you will know the consequence. Just see Julian Assange life? Please at least respect people who reveals the insidious evils at the cost of their freedom?

seanw444 5y ago

The dude exposed an attack on freedom and privacy. I ultimately respect him for that. I do not expect him to continue to one-up himself and ruin his life more and more until he's dead, or staring at a concrete wall in solitary. He's done a massive service to the people. Let him have at least the minimal freedom he has left. It's time for others to carry the torch.

ngngngng 5y ago

We can't all fight every single battle there is. And it's not unreasonable to do a cost/benefit analysis on something like this. Dude just wants to live his life, he's already sacrificed quite a bit.