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I thought about this, my country went trough a civil war 30 years ago. Since the independence "our" government has just been about splitting the spoils of war b

I thought about this, my country went trough a civil war 30 years ago. Since the independence "our" government has just been about splitting the spoils of war between the elites. Between me and my families I think we own one house that's not worth anything because of it's location and my apartment which I'm still paying off. So if my country got attacked I would grab my family and leave without a second thought - let the people who divided the profits and live off the benefits defend it - I would be just as well in any other country. Now if it came to world war and it was Russia and China taking over the west I would feel differently about it - but in that case it's a nuclear armageddon so I could probably do shit.

hogrider 5y ago
Even at the heught of the nation state as the sole ordering institution in your life I always wondered what compells people to fight for their country other than self defense ofc. At the end of the day you will still be serving the elites when it's all over. Most times they didn't take good care of the veterans. Really no incentive to fight hard other than you were conscripted and treason carries the death penalty.
- sangnoir 5y ago
  > At the end of the day you will still be serving the elites when it's all over What's the alternative? Not fight and become occupied and likely oppressed - is that a better choice? Or flee and become a war refugee? The average citizen doesn't have highly sought-after skills in other countries, they are likely to go to a refugee camp for months and years. So, some people choose to fight for their families, friends, and preserving their way of life. I think defending the in-group from an aggressive out-group is a perfectly reasonable, ingrained human response.
- yks 5y ago
  In the end of the day everyone dies anyway and dying defending your home is virtuous on the subconscious level. This is not a rational conclusion you can think through lying on your couch in peaceful times, but when your family is already in the bomb shelter, you cornered on all sides and rockets are flying over, some kind of a deeper instinct kicks in. That's why many Ukrainians are fighting so fiercely right now, there is not enough mental capacity about caring about "serving the elites" or other such thoughts of better times anymore, you fight, you die, you live.
- codyb 5y ago
  I’d fight to protect my family and friends from a foreign invasion. Sounds better than running.
jacquesm 5y ago
Civil wars are different, being the aggressor is very much different from being the defender.

hogrider 5y ago

Even at the heught of the nation state as the sole ordering institution in your life I always wondered what compells people to fight for their country other than self defense ofc. At the end of the day you will still be serving the elites when it's all over. Most times they didn't take good care of the veterans. Really no incentive to fight hard other than you were conscripted and treason carries the death penalty.

sangnoir 5y ago
> At the end of the day you will still be serving the elites when it's all over What's the alternative? Not fight and become occupied and likely oppressed - is that a better choice? Or flee and become a war refugee? The average citizen doesn't have highly sought-after skills in other countries, they are likely to go to a refugee camp for months and years. So, some people choose to fight for their families, friends, and preserving their way of life. I think defending the in-group from an aggressive out-group is a perfectly reasonable, ingrained human response.
yks 5y ago
In the end of the day everyone dies anyway and dying defending your home is virtuous on the subconscious level. This is not a rational conclusion you can think through lying on your couch in peaceful times, but when your family is already in the bomb shelter, you cornered on all sides and rockets are flying over, some kind of a deeper instinct kicks in. That's why many Ukrainians are fighting so fiercely right now, there is not enough mental capacity about caring about "serving the elites" or other such thoughts of better times anymore, you fight, you die, you live.
codyb 5y ago
I’d fight to protect my family and friends from a foreign invasion. Sounds better than running.

jacquesm 5y ago

Civil wars are different, being the aggressor is very much different from being the defender.