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> I know emotions are running high in this thread but asking to educate myself. I hope You would learn something from today's message by Minister of Foreign Af

> I know emotions are running high in this thread but asking to educate myself. I hope You would learn something from today's message by Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine on situation where few Ukrainian kindergartens shelled by Russian rocket strikes: > Today’s Russian attacks on a kindergarten and an orphanage are war crimes and violations of the Rome Statute. Together with the General Prosecutor’s Office we are collecting this and other facts, which we will immediately send to the Hague. Responsibility is inevitable.[0] N.B. I'm Ukrainian living in Ukraine. Here is my statement for HN:[1] [0] https://twitter.com/DmytroKuleba/status/1497186665156255754 https://twitter.com/DmytroKuleba/status/1497186665156255754 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30395897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30395897

yalogin 5y ago
Oh no! I am against any Russian aggression and the atrocities they are committing. This is terrible. Please understand that I am only trying to understand the approach that organization was taking with the charity, never questioning how evil Putin is or that he needs to be held accountable.
- app4soft 5y ago
  > I am only trying to understand I just hope you would be able to understand feeling of Ukrainian 14-year-old girl, killed by Russian missile yesterday on the street of Uman city, Cherkasy region, Ukraine.[0] [0] https://twitter.com/app4soft/status/1497242681981882371 https://twitter.com/app4soft/status/1497242681981882371
HideousKojima 5y ago
As horrific as that is, that sort of stuff happens in wars all the time. It's so common that it even has its own fancy word to make it sound less horrific: collateral damage. That said, unless Russia was intentionally targeting the kindergarten (and/or the Russians didn't reasonably believe the kindergarten to be housing enemy troops at the time) I don't really see how that can be treated as a war crime. For the record I think Russia's invasion is morally wrong and unjustified.
- app4soft 5y ago
  > As horrific as that is, that sort of stuff happens in wars all the time. But when it happens in your country, your city, even your home... I just wish You to not meet war eye-to-eye. I'm actually looking into war's eyes directly.
- ZeroGravitas 5y ago
  The invasion itself may well be a war crime too (though there are gray areas and Russia has been trying to present itself as on the right side of those lines): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_aggression https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_aggression
- mdoms 5y ago
  History will not look kindly on people like you defending the actions of Russia.
  - HideousKojima 5y ago
    What actions exactly have I defended? Awful, horrific shit on scales beyond our comprehension have happened in basically every war in human history, including the deaths of countless innocent civilians. But to count as a war crime, the deaths of civilians has to be intentional (or at least with some level of reckless disregard for the safety of civilians, the standards of proof for which would be extremely high in a war). I've seen no evidence put forward yet that the kindergarten that got shelled was shelled intentionally. Russia's invasion of Ukraine is morally wrong (and as a sibling comment pointed out, the invasion itself may be a war crime). Deaths of civilians caused by Russia's invasion are not inherently war crimes in and of themselves. It's not like felony murder, where any death caused in the commission of a felony is instantly treated as a murder. Civilian deaths caused by a war of aggression are not inherently war crimes.
    - mdoms 5y ago

yalogin 5y ago

Oh no! I am against any Russian aggression and the atrocities they are committing. This is terrible. Please understand that I am only trying to understand the approach that organization was taking with the charity, never questioning how evil Putin is or that he needs to be held accountable.

app4soft 5y ago
> I am only trying to understand I just hope you would be able to understand feeling of Ukrainian 14-year-old girl, killed by Russian missile yesterday on the street of Uman city, Cherkasy region, Ukraine.[0] [0] https://twitter.com/app4soft/status/1497242681981882371 https://twitter.com/app4soft/status/1497242681981882371

HideousKojima 5y ago

As horrific as that is, that sort of stuff happens in wars all the time. It's so common that it even has its own fancy word to make it sound less horrific: collateral damage. That said, unless Russia was intentionally targeting the kindergarten (and/or the Russians didn't reasonably believe the kindergarten to be housing enemy troops at the time) I don't really see how that can be treated as a war crime. For the record I think Russia's invasion is morally wrong and unjustified.

app4soft 5y ago
> As horrific as that is, that sort of stuff happens in wars all the time. But when it happens in your country, your city, even your home... I just wish You to not meet war eye-to-eye. I'm actually looking into war's eyes directly.
ZeroGravitas 5y ago
The invasion itself may well be a war crime too (though there are gray areas and Russia has been trying to present itself as on the right side of those lines): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_aggression https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_aggression
mdoms 5y ago
History will not look kindly on people like you defending the actions of Russia.
- HideousKojima 5y ago
  What actions exactly have I defended? Awful, horrific shit on scales beyond our comprehension have happened in basically every war in human history, including the deaths of countless innocent civilians. But to count as a war crime, the deaths of civilians has to be intentional (or at least with some level of reckless disregard for the safety of civilians, the standards of proof for which would be extremely high in a war). I've seen no evidence put forward yet that the kindergarten that got shelled was shelled intentionally. Russia's invasion of Ukraine is morally wrong (and as a sibling comment pointed out, the invasion itself may be a war crime). Deaths of civilians caused by Russia's invasion are not inherently war crimes in and of themselves. It's not like felony murder, where any death caused in the commission of a felony is instantly treated as a murder. Civilian deaths caused by a war of aggression are not inherently war crimes.
  - mdoms 5y ago