4 ms·

Let them. Bitcoin is about freedom.

user-the-name 5y ago
"Bitcoin is about freedom", you say as a response to Bitcoin being used to fund an invasion? How do you not see the absurdity of this claim?
- keymone 5y ago
- b112 5y ago
  You seem confused about freedom, and seem to think it means freedom to only do the things you want done. Freedom does not mean people, or countries, must do what one deems right or wrong. That is the reality of no restrictions on a thing. As an aside, maybe, fighting a physical invasion with harsh words, wagging fingers, and paper thin "we won't talk to you any more" restrictions isn't the answer? It's never worked before. It only hurts innocent civilians in the end. Dictators and tyrants, sadly, will only stop when you use force.
  - b112 5y ago
    I see downvotes, but history is an excellent predictor. Russia is held in an iron grip. The public can not, and will not successfully rise up. Any threat to Putin is either dead, or jailed. Now, with these restrictions and sanctions, another country, a long time friend of Russia, China, also undergoing trade restrictions, will clearly work with Russia even more closely. Do people really think that China and Russia do not have the resources, and industry, to not care about sanctions?! And again historically, when chaos reigns, people take advantage of opportunities. I fully expect China to finally take Taiwan very soon. Literally, this is the best time for them to do so. Ukraine is just the match, people. The real flames are not even visible yet.
    - slim109ya 5y ago
      If China really wants Taiwan then now's the time to do it. North Korea might as well take South Korea while all this is going on. Now I'm starting to think the world is descending into chaos. Or has it always been that way?
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        With brief interludes of quiet, yes.
  - Cthulhu_ 5y ago
    > As an aside, maybe, fighting a physical invasion with harsh words, wagging fingers, and paper thin "we won't talk to you any more" restrictions isn't the answer? First, Ukraine is fighting a physical invasion into their territory with their army. The rest of NATO or Europe is not under attack and not at war with Russia. That isn't harsh words. Second, this is an oversimplification to the point of ignorance. How long would you last if access to a bank was denied? How long do you think wherever you live would be okay?
  - sgjohnson 5y ago
    > Dictators and tyrants, sadly, will only stop when you use force. This isn’t strictly true. Qadaffi warmed up to the west, and even stopped torturing people. And look at how he ended up. Not only they rule with an iron fist, they can’t rule in any other way, because the very instant they’ll show any sign of weakness, it’s game over.
- wickoff 5y ago
  It's like oxygen. Is it bad because the invaders can also breathe it in? Ukranian government is very much pro-crypto. https://www.kmu.gov.ua/en/news/parlament-uhvaliv-zakon-pro-virtualni-aktivi-zgidno-z-propoziciyami-prezidenta https://www.kmu.gov.ua/en/news/parlament-uhvaliv-zakon-pro-v...
  - micromacrofoot 5y ago
    I don’t think anyone’s buying weapons with oxygen though
    - keymone 5y ago
      they use oxygen to pull the trigger on their firearms.
      - micromacrofoot 5y ago
        yeah but they’re not pulling the trigger with bitcoin, they’re buying weapons
        sgjohnson 5y ago
        micromacrofoot 5y ago
      - Cthulhu_ 5y ago
        Christ on a bike, the pedantry in this subthread.
  - user-the-name 5y ago
    It's actually nothing like that.
- concinds 5y ago
  It is not being used to fund an invasion, but to fund a Ukranian military response[0]. Russia has banned crypto and crypto mining, and the only person that claims Russia is "using Bitcoin" is Dan Peña. [0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/t0jpbw/ukraine_military_group_receives_400000_in_bitcoin/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/t0jpbw/ukraine_mil...
- rvz 5y ago
  The road to hell is paved with good intensions isn't it? The same users praising Signal about protecting the privacy of activists are also protecting the privacy of terrorists, criminals and extremists and with the introduction of a privacy coin called MobileCoin which makes funding invasions, scams and terrorist activities even more untraceable. But at least Bitcoin is traceable. MobileCoin, Monero on the other hand...
ssl232 5y ago
It also, if you believe Saifedean Ammous, makes world wars impossibly unaffordable, once you achieve hyperbitcoinisation and it's no longer possible for governments to print money to fund conflict. It's probably one of the reasons why the world wars happened only after we started to move off the gold standard (definitely not the only one of course).

"Bitcoin is about freedom", you say as a response to Bitcoin being used to fund an invasion? How do you not see the absurdity of this claim?

keymone 5y ago
b112 5y ago
You seem confused about freedom, and seem to think it means freedom to only do the things you want done. Freedom does not mean people, or countries, must do what one deems right or wrong. That is the reality of no restrictions on a thing. As an aside, maybe, fighting a physical invasion with harsh words, wagging fingers, and paper thin "we won't talk to you any more" restrictions isn't the answer? It's never worked before. It only hurts innocent civilians in the end. Dictators and tyrants, sadly, will only stop when you use force.
- b112 5y ago
  I see downvotes, but history is an excellent predictor. Russia is held in an iron grip. The public can not, and will not successfully rise up. Any threat to Putin is either dead, or jailed. Now, with these restrictions and sanctions, another country, a long time friend of Russia, China, also undergoing trade restrictions, will clearly work with Russia even more closely. Do people really think that China and Russia do not have the resources, and industry, to not care about sanctions?! And again historically, when chaos reigns, people take advantage of opportunities. I fully expect China to finally take Taiwan very soon. Literally, this is the best time for them to do so. Ukraine is just the match, people. The real flames are not even visible yet.
  - slim109ya 5y ago
    If China really wants Taiwan then now's the time to do it. North Korea might as well take South Korea while all this is going on. Now I'm starting to think the world is descending into chaos. Or has it always been that way?
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      With brief interludes of quiet, yes.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  > As an aside, maybe, fighting a physical invasion with harsh words, wagging fingers, and paper thin "we won't talk to you any more" restrictions isn't the answer? First, Ukraine is fighting a physical invasion into their territory with their army. The rest of NATO or Europe is not under attack and not at war with Russia. That isn't harsh words. Second, this is an oversimplification to the point of ignorance. How long would you last if access to a bank was denied? How long do you think wherever you live would be okay?
- sgjohnson 5y ago
  > Dictators and tyrants, sadly, will only stop when you use force. This isn’t strictly true. Qadaffi warmed up to the west, and even stopped torturing people. And look at how he ended up. Not only they rule with an iron fist, they can’t rule in any other way, because the very instant they’ll show any sign of weakness, it’s game over.
wickoff 5y ago
It's like oxygen. Is it bad because the invaders can also breathe it in? Ukranian government is very much pro-crypto. https://www.kmu.gov.ua/en/news/parlament-uhvaliv-zakon-pro-virtualni-aktivi-zgidno-z-propoziciyami-prezidenta https://www.kmu.gov.ua/en/news/parlament-uhvaliv-zakon-pro-v...
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  I don’t think anyone’s buying weapons with oxygen though
  - keymone 5y ago
    they use oxygen to pull the trigger on their firearms.
    - micromacrofoot 5y ago
      yeah but they’re not pulling the trigger with bitcoin, they’re buying weapons
      - sgjohnson 5y ago
        micromacrofoot 5y ago
    - Cthulhu_ 5y ago
      Christ on a bike, the pedantry in this subthread.
- user-the-name 5y ago
  It's actually nothing like that.
concinds 5y ago
It is not being used to fund an invasion, but to fund a Ukranian military response[0]. Russia has banned crypto and crypto mining, and the only person that claims Russia is "using Bitcoin" is Dan Peña. [0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/t0jpbw/ukraine_military_group_receives_400000_in_bitcoin/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/t0jpbw/ukraine_mil...
rvz 5y ago
The road to hell is paved with good intensions isn't it? The same users praising Signal about protecting the privacy of activists are also protecting the privacy of terrorists, criminals and extremists and with the introduction of a privacy coin called MobileCoin which makes funding invasions, scams and terrorist activities even more untraceable. But at least Bitcoin is traceable. MobileCoin, Monero on the other hand...

ssl232 5y ago

It also, if you believe Saifedean Ammous, makes world wars impossibly unaffordable, once you achieve hyperbitcoinisation and it's no longer possible for governments to print money to fund conflict. It's probably one of the reasons why the world wars happened only after we started to move off the gold standard (definitely not the only one of course).