5 ms·

I'm sure you'd also tell someone being raped to not defend themselves so it's over faster? Jesus Christ, how do you people get so callous? What is wrong with y

by glogla 5y ago

I'm sure you'd also tell someone being raped to not defend themselves so it's over faster? Jesus Christ, how do you people get so callous? What is wrong with you? who hurt you? What made you give up empathy and humanity? I'll never understand you people.

jacquesm 5y ago
Agreed, this is beyond disgusting.
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  Do you really think Ukraine has a reasonable chance of resisting this invasion? It doesn't look like it to me. So what are you offering other than prolonging the agony?
  - drran 5y ago
    Ukraine resists for 8 years straight. How many years you need to accept that Ukraine is stronger than RF?
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Ah the 'lets roll over for the enemy' group. Yes, we had those here in NL as well when WWII broke out. Let's just say that when the invaders eventually left - as they always do - that group didn't fare particularly well. It's called cowardice, if coupled with actions that benefit the enemy it's called collaboration and is usually dealt with for what it is: treason. I have no dog in this particular race other than that I know both a number of Russians and a number of Ukrainians so consider my views 'balanced' for what that is worth: down with Putin, and I hope that the Russian soldiers know that they may win the initial push but the price will be substantial and eventually they will lose. The weird thing is that if anything the result of this is that NATO will expand, precisely to ward of this sort of idiocy. As for agony: some prefer to fight rather than to suffer under an invader, which is a special kind of agony, which tends to last a lot longer and which will endanger not just you but also your family, your children and so on. Russia has a long history of invading other countries and it invariably spells utter misery for the occupied people.
    - mschuster91 5y ago
      > The weird thing is that if anything the result of this is that NATO will expand, precisely to ward of this sort of idiocy. And many seem to have forgotten under Putin's propaganda of "the NATO provocations" that the free and democratic societies of the former Soviet Union / Eastern Bloc chose to join NATO after Russia's military actions, particularly after the events of 1991-1996 (Transnistria conflict, Abchasian separatist conflict, "intervention" in Chechnya). It is the fault of Russian politics that NATO is so close to its borders!
    - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        No, that's easy for you to say from a country that has never been occupied.
  - ptr 5y ago
    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" Of course they have a chance. Their current strength is about 465k men (and women). Add on top the general mobilization happening now. They're also strongly motivated, which the Russians aren't. Ukraine can definitely do this. Also, giving up doesn't guarantee people will be safe. Russian occupation forces aren't usually very nice.
  - modo_mario 5y ago
    Did Ireland ever have a reasonable chance of resisting British invasion? Did Afghanistan ever have a reasonable chance of resisting Soviet/US invasion? Did Vietnam ever have a reasonable chance of resisting US/Chinese invasion?
    - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
      Northern Ireland has never looked so close to reunification and that is largely because the republicans renounced their violence.
  - Cthulhu_ 5y ago
    Would you have thought the Taliban and IS did in e.g. Afghanistan? Twenty years later and the US got tired of trying, pulled out, and they're back in power. They can't win a guerilla war.
- brabel 5y ago
  Yep, fighting without considering the consequences is what people should do. Let's destroy all of Europe if we need to, just so we can say fuck you Putin! Beyong disgusting , me? I am sure you're the best person in the world and ready to pack your bags and bear arms against any invincible opponent without even thinking about the costs as they don't matter a single bit.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Your position is called 'appeasement'. It's understandable, if not very good in the long term because that means that Putin gets to rule the world. Somewhere you have to draw a line, you can choose for yourself whether that line is the Ukrainian border, Kiev or France. But you too will find that you have a line. Or maybe you don't.
  - 2pEXgD0fZ5cF 5y ago
    > destroy all of Europe if we need to, just so we can say fuck you Putin "just so we can say fuck you Putin"? Really? That is how you are attempting to frame the situation of a clear victim defending itself against an aggressor that has been appeased for years now? So you believe that the attacking entity should always win, no questions asked? Is conflict to be avoided at all costs? Can I come into your home and just claim your house if I threaten to escalate with violence? You wouldn't want any conflict, so the right move would be to just give it to me.
    - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
      >So you believe that the attacking entity should always win Nobody is saying that.
      - 2pEXgD0fZ5cF 5y ago
        Unwillingness to differentiate between different types of violence (like attacking vs. defending) under any circumstance is exactly "saying that". Depending on the topic you can easily call it victim blaming too.
brabel 5y ago
- jacquesm 5y ago
  > If the person being raped knows their attacker will kill them if they defend themselves, yes, they should stay quiet. But nobody knows that ahead of time. Your comment is absolutely revolting.
  - brabel 5y ago
    IF I tell you I will kill you if you move, and I have a knife to your throat, I think you should have a pretty clear and well formed belief that I probably mean it. Telling victims of crime to react as you seem to be proposing is completely irresponsible. I come from a country with high crime and we know very, very well that doing that only causes more deaths - it's public policy to tell people this as many people, like you, believe they can be brave and fight back. There's no heroes. Life is not a movie. To survive in this world, we all need to take a hit every now and then: as long as we can stand up again later, it is often the only reasonable course of action. I am also revolted, disgusted by your suggestions that people should put their lives on the line even when they have clear indications that it may be the last thing they do. Losing your life is NEVER worth it. Please stop propagating the ideology of being a martyr or a hero as if that was a good thing. It's not, it costs real lives in the real world.

by glogla 5y ago

jacquesm 5y ago

Agreed, this is beyond disgusting.

tonyedgecombe 5y ago
Do you really think Ukraine has a reasonable chance of resisting this invasion? It doesn't look like it to me. So what are you offering other than prolonging the agony?
- drran 5y ago
  Ukraine resists for 8 years straight. How many years you need to accept that Ukraine is stronger than RF?
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Ah the 'lets roll over for the enemy' group. Yes, we had those here in NL as well when WWII broke out. Let's just say that when the invaders eventually left - as they always do - that group didn't fare particularly well. It's called cowardice, if coupled with actions that benefit the enemy it's called collaboration and is usually dealt with for what it is: treason. I have no dog in this particular race other than that I know both a number of Russians and a number of Ukrainians so consider my views 'balanced' for what that is worth: down with Putin, and I hope that the Russian soldiers know that they may win the initial push but the price will be substantial and eventually they will lose. The weird thing is that if anything the result of this is that NATO will expand, precisely to ward of this sort of idiocy. As for agony: some prefer to fight rather than to suffer under an invader, which is a special kind of agony, which tends to last a lot longer and which will endanger not just you but also your family, your children and so on. Russia has a long history of invading other countries and it invariably spells utter misery for the occupied people.
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    > The weird thing is that if anything the result of this is that NATO will expand, precisely to ward of this sort of idiocy. And many seem to have forgotten under Putin's propaganda of "the NATO provocations" that the free and democratic societies of the former Soviet Union / Eastern Bloc chose to join NATO after Russia's military actions, particularly after the events of 1991-1996 (Transnistria conflict, Abchasian separatist conflict, "intervention" in Chechnya). It is the fault of Russian politics that NATO is so close to its borders!
  - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      No, that's easy for you to say from a country that has never been occupied.
- ptr 5y ago
  "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" Of course they have a chance. Their current strength is about 465k men (and women). Add on top the general mobilization happening now. They're also strongly motivated, which the Russians aren't. Ukraine can definitely do this. Also, giving up doesn't guarantee people will be safe. Russian occupation forces aren't usually very nice.
- modo_mario 5y ago
  Did Ireland ever have a reasonable chance of resisting British invasion? Did Afghanistan ever have a reasonable chance of resisting Soviet/US invasion? Did Vietnam ever have a reasonable chance of resisting US/Chinese invasion?
  - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    Northern Ireland has never looked so close to reunification and that is largely because the republicans renounced their violence.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  Would you have thought the Taliban and IS did in e.g. Afghanistan? Twenty years later and the US got tired of trying, pulled out, and they're back in power. They can't win a guerilla war.
brabel 5y ago
Yep, fighting without considering the consequences is what people should do. Let's destroy all of Europe if we need to, just so we can say fuck you Putin! Beyong disgusting , me? I am sure you're the best person in the world and ready to pack your bags and bear arms against any invincible opponent without even thinking about the costs as they don't matter a single bit.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Your position is called 'appeasement'. It's understandable, if not very good in the long term because that means that Putin gets to rule the world. Somewhere you have to draw a line, you can choose for yourself whether that line is the Ukrainian border, Kiev or France. But you too will find that you have a line. Or maybe you don't.
- 2pEXgD0fZ5cF 5y ago
  > destroy all of Europe if we need to, just so we can say fuck you Putin "just so we can say fuck you Putin"? Really? That is how you are attempting to frame the situation of a clear victim defending itself against an aggressor that has been appeased for years now? So you believe that the attacking entity should always win, no questions asked? Is conflict to be avoided at all costs? Can I come into your home and just claim your house if I threaten to escalate with violence? You wouldn't want any conflict, so the right move would be to just give it to me.
  - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    >So you believe that the attacking entity should always win Nobody is saying that.
    - 2pEXgD0fZ5cF 5y ago
      Unwillingness to differentiate between different types of violence (like attacking vs. defending) under any circumstance is exactly "saying that". Depending on the topic you can easily call it victim blaming too.

brabel 5y ago

jacquesm 5y ago
> If the person being raped knows their attacker will kill them if they defend themselves, yes, they should stay quiet. But nobody knows that ahead of time. Your comment is absolutely revolting.
- brabel 5y ago
  IF I tell you I will kill you if you move, and I have a knife to your throat, I think you should have a pretty clear and well formed belief that I probably mean it. Telling victims of crime to react as you seem to be proposing is completely irresponsible. I come from a country with high crime and we know very, very well that doing that only causes more deaths - it's public policy to tell people this as many people, like you, believe they can be brave and fight back. There's no heroes. Life is not a movie. To survive in this world, we all need to take a hit every now and then: as long as we can stand up again later, it is often the only reasonable course of action. I am also revolted, disgusted by your suggestions that people should put their lives on the line even when they have clear indications that it may be the last thing they do. Losing your life is NEVER worth it. Please stop propagating the ideology of being a martyr or a hero as if that was a good thing. It's not, it costs real lives in the real world.