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None. Just invite Russia into NATO. Why not? Pride? Cant sell as many weapons anymore? I think many war hawks in the West just want to cut Russia down to size,

by EGreg 5y ago

None. Just invite Russia into NATO. Why not? Pride? Cant sell as many weapons anymore? I think many war hawks in the West just want to cut Russia down to size, one less “superpower” to worry about. If it is invited into NATO them the whole raison d’etre of NATO kind of disappears: the big bad enemy is only Russia.

drran 5y ago
Don't worry. Territories of Russian Federation will join the NATO.
- EGreg 5y ago
  Yes, that’s what many people want. To just break up the Russian federation, they hate that it’s so big. Personally, I don’t care too much for imperialism. But we all know how well USA or China would react to secession. USA’s bloodiest was began to “preserve the union”. EU and USSR was actually kind of nice to have a way to let some members secede.
mopsi 5y ago
NATO is not Russia, members don't get included against their will. To become a member, a country must apply and agree to settle disputes using peaceful means. Does not look like Russia has any interest in that.
- EGreg 5y ago
  It looks to me like Russia has interest in that. Russia has been bringing up its geopolitical security concerns and bright lines consistently for years and no one in NATO cared enough to “appease” them in any lasting way. It called on Ukraine for years to continue talks w the separatists based on the Minsk agreements but they didn’t. What peaceful means does Russia have available to them? They had a referendum in Crimea where no one was killed — seems far more peaceful than USA or China, the other two “superpowers”. What if USA agrees to settle disputes using peaceful means but then, ya know, just goes and bullies people? It is a founding member of NATO. What should Russia do if Georgia is massacring separatists in Ossetia? (Similar situation to Ukraine.) Just stand by and watch? Should Georgia be inducted into NATO but Russia not? What should anyone do if Pakistan is massacring separtists in Bangladesh? Just curious what is the standard really for when a country should intervene.
  - mopsi 5y ago
    > It called on Ukraine for years to continue talks w the separatists Come on, man. This is such bullshit it's just insulting. How many "separatists" will there be left after Russia stops paying their wages?
    - EGreg 5y ago
      I have developers in Kharkiv and other areas of southeast Ukraine so I speak to them They tell me Kiev’s attitude towards the Russian speaking population there. You can ask them yourself. Where do you live? The situation is exactly as you’d expect … some guerilla fighters shoot rockets and then Kiev shoots back and civilians have to sit in basements… so there is escalation and the local residents feel that Kiev is bombing them… just like in any other separatist situation. Hardly a “genocide” as Putin characterized it but also not exactly welcomed by Kiev. They say they offered Kiev to be an autonomous region with its own Russian language etc. and not bother anyone but Kiev sends troops. I just listen, I am trying to piece together what the situation was like on the ground from people who are there.

by EGreg 5y ago

drran 5y ago

Don't worry. Territories of Russian Federation will join the NATO.

EGreg 5y ago
Yes, that’s what many people want. To just break up the Russian federation, they hate that it’s so big. Personally, I don’t care too much for imperialism. But we all know how well USA or China would react to secession. USA’s bloodiest was began to “preserve the union”. EU and USSR was actually kind of nice to have a way to let some members secede.

mopsi 5y ago

NATO is not Russia, members don't get included against their will. To become a member, a country must apply and agree to settle disputes using peaceful means. Does not look like Russia has any interest in that.

EGreg 5y ago
It looks to me like Russia has interest in that. Russia has been bringing up its geopolitical security concerns and bright lines consistently for years and no one in NATO cared enough to “appease” them in any lasting way. It called on Ukraine for years to continue talks w the separatists based on the Minsk agreements but they didn’t. What peaceful means does Russia have available to them? They had a referendum in Crimea where no one was killed — seems far more peaceful than USA or China, the other two “superpowers”. What if USA agrees to settle disputes using peaceful means but then, ya know, just goes and bullies people? It is a founding member of NATO. What should Russia do if Georgia is massacring separatists in Ossetia? (Similar situation to Ukraine.) Just stand by and watch? Should Georgia be inducted into NATO but Russia not? What should anyone do if Pakistan is massacring separtists in Bangladesh? Just curious what is the standard really for when a country should intervene.
- mopsi 5y ago
  > It called on Ukraine for years to continue talks w the separatists Come on, man. This is such bullshit it's just insulting. How many "separatists" will there be left after Russia stops paying their wages?
  - EGreg 5y ago
    I have developers in Kharkiv and other areas of southeast Ukraine so I speak to them They tell me Kiev’s attitude towards the Russian speaking population there. You can ask them yourself. Where do you live? The situation is exactly as you’d expect … some guerilla fighters shoot rockets and then Kiev shoots back and civilians have to sit in basements… so there is escalation and the local residents feel that Kiev is bombing them… just like in any other separatist situation. Hardly a “genocide” as Putin characterized it but also not exactly welcomed by Kiev. They say they offered Kiev to be an autonomous region with its own Russian language etc. and not bother anyone but Kiev sends troops. I just listen, I am trying to piece together what the situation was like on the ground from people who are there.