4 ms·

I don’t think you understand how important the gas is in Europe in winter. People will quite literally freeze to death in their homes without it.

by bb123 5y ago

gocartStatue 5y ago
Not at that time of the year, we won't. There are reserves still. If we don't stop this madness now, we may freeze in 1-5 years running away from war moving through Latvia, Estonia, Poland etc. But Germany thinks it will save its economy still buying gas from RUS, so there's that...
jonathanstrange 5y ago
What a bullshit, at most it would be inconvenient and people have to spend a lot of money on electric radiators for a month or so.
- austinjp 5y ago
  A lot of people in Europe and the UK are already struggling to pay bills. It's been described as "eat or heat", since some can't afford to do both. Rising cost of living, reduced job security, and lower wages are all killing tens-of-thousands of people already. https://www.endfuelpoverty.org.uk/about-fuel-poverty/ https://www.endfuelpoverty.org.uk/about-fuel-poverty/
  - jonathanstrange 5y ago
    You're treating an aggressive war in Europe like a minor calamity. It is an obvious responsibility of the state to help people pay for substitute heating and ease the negative impact of conflicts like that. In the worst case, even the military could step in. Helping citizens in times of conflict is one of the primary functions of governments and state institutions. It's much better to face these kind of negative consequences now than to embolden a dictator and later wonder why you sit in a bunker while Latvia or Poland is overrun. Just because this is not an armed conflict (yet) does not mean it should be treated lightly.
    - austinjp 5y ago
      > You're treating an aggressive war in Europe like a minor calamity I have absolutely no idea why you say this, and I can assure you that I am not doing this. Fuel poverty in Europe and the UK are among many reasons why those nations should take what's happening in the Ukraine very seriously. My concern is that the ruling parties don't take these things seriously enough. To reassure you: I completely agree that states should look after their citizens who cannot eat or keep themselves warm. Unfortunately, this demonstrably does not happen. The situation in Ukraine is dreadful, and I certainly do not think it is minor. Quite the opposite.
      - jonathanstrange 5y ago
        I'm reasonably certain that the German government would not let citizens freeze to death because of a gas shortage. Otherwise, we agree.
        austinjp 5y ago
        Well, I'm glad we agree on most points, but Germam citizens most definitely will die because of fuel poverty. https://energyindustryreview.com/analysis/energy-poverty-a-time-bomb-waiting-to-be-defused/ https://energyindustryreview.com/analysis/energy-poverty-a-t...
saiya-jin 5y ago
Electric heating, oil heating and so on. Not sure if the grid would cope with such a load, but there are always options. Another option is just to give up with your kind of argument, and pay up Russia. That's looking increasingly like shooting our own foot in long term. The idea he will stop and be happy just with Ukraine is dangerously naive and ignore his own steps and statements. If this won't be a wake up call in Europe then nothing will. Ramp up military budgets (I hate the idea, but that's how you deter bullies and we have one greedy fucker right now next door), and prepare infrastructure for withdrawal of anything russian. Long term that's good for Europe and world too.

I don’t think you understand how important the gas is in Europe in winter. People will quite literally freeze to death in their homes without it.

by bb123 5y ago

I don’t think you understand how important the gas is in Europe in winter. People will quite literally freeze to death in their homes without it.

gocartStatue 5y ago

Not at that time of the year, we won't. There are reserves still. If we don't stop this madness now, we may freeze in 1-5 years running away from war moving through Latvia, Estonia, Poland etc. But Germany thinks it will save its economy still buying gas from RUS, so there's that...

jonathanstrange 5y ago

What a bullshit, at most it would be inconvenient and people have to spend a lot of money on electric radiators for a month or so.

austinjp 5y ago
A lot of people in Europe and the UK are already struggling to pay bills. It's been described as "eat or heat", since some can't afford to do both. Rising cost of living, reduced job security, and lower wages are all killing tens-of-thousands of people already. https://www.endfuelpoverty.org.uk/about-fuel-poverty/ https://www.endfuelpoverty.org.uk/about-fuel-poverty/
- jonathanstrange 5y ago
  You're treating an aggressive war in Europe like a minor calamity. It is an obvious responsibility of the state to help people pay for substitute heating and ease the negative impact of conflicts like that. In the worst case, even the military could step in. Helping citizens in times of conflict is one of the primary functions of governments and state institutions. It's much better to face these kind of negative consequences now than to embolden a dictator and later wonder why you sit in a bunker while Latvia or Poland is overrun. Just because this is not an armed conflict (yet) does not mean it should be treated lightly.
  - austinjp 5y ago
    > You're treating an aggressive war in Europe like a minor calamity I have absolutely no idea why you say this, and I can assure you that I am not doing this. Fuel poverty in Europe and the UK are among many reasons why those nations should take what's happening in the Ukraine very seriously. My concern is that the ruling parties don't take these things seriously enough. To reassure you: I completely agree that states should look after their citizens who cannot eat or keep themselves warm. Unfortunately, this demonstrably does not happen. The situation in Ukraine is dreadful, and I certainly do not think it is minor. Quite the opposite.
    - jonathanstrange 5y ago
      I'm reasonably certain that the German government would not let citizens freeze to death because of a gas shortage. Otherwise, we agree.
      - austinjp 5y ago
        Well, I'm glad we agree on most points, but Germam citizens most definitely will die because of fuel poverty. https://energyindustryreview.com/analysis/energy-poverty-a-time-bomb-waiting-to-be-defused/ https://energyindustryreview.com/analysis/energy-poverty-a-t...

saiya-jin 5y ago

Electric heating, oil heating and so on. Not sure if the grid would cope with such a load, but there are always options. Another option is just to give up with your kind of argument, and pay up Russia. That's looking increasingly like shooting our own foot in long term. The idea he will stop and be happy just with Ukraine is dangerously naive and ignore his own steps and statements. If this won't be a wake up call in Europe then nothing will. Ramp up military budgets (I hate the idea, but that's how you deter bullies and we have one greedy fucker right now next door), and prepare infrastructure for withdrawal of anything russian. Long term that's good for Europe and world too.