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You can find small far-right groups in virtually every country, including the US and many European countries. Talk about them is mere distraction, they are not

You can find small far-right groups in virtually every country, including the US and many European countries. Talk about them is mere distraction, they are not running the country. And there's little doubt that if a country goes through a violent clash against corrupt government (see euromaidan), such groups would take the opportunity to gain standing. You can draw parallels to capitol hill events, or imagine what groups like Soldiers of Odin (the nordics) would have done had there been protests with bullets. And when your country is invaded by a foreign nation, your army generals are not going to ask about the political opinions of those who are willing to fight for their country. A small group of nazis defending Ukraine from Russian invasion? So what. There will be nationalists standing in any country's army if they get invaded. Talk about nazism is a mere distraction and something Putin's trolls would do. Please don't.

rbanffy 5y ago
> Talk about nazism is a mere distraction and something Putin's trolls would do. Please don't. It's a bit more complicated than that. Ukraine has neonazi militias that enjoy some level of government support and that have been involved in violent incidents in the past. This, of course, does not justify an invasion by a foreign power. Ukraine currently ranks very low as a functional democracy (we can give them some slack on that, since they've been essentially invaded since 2014). I'm still not sure what's the upside of this for Russia, or for Putin. As the article points out, invasions take months, if not years, of planning. While the decision to stand down can be made at any point, the decision to invade has to wait for all the pieces to be in place. Whatever the end-goal is, it's not Ukraine.
- drran 5y ago
  Let me quote Wikipedia about Azov regiment: > On 11 August, Azov battalion, backed by Ukrainian paratroopers, captured Marinka from pro-Russian rebels and entered the suburbs of Donetsk clashing with Donetsk People's Republic fighters. So, I assume, the Ukraininan Nazi are killing Donetsk People's Republic fighters? This is THE crime you are talking about?
  - rbanffy 5y ago
    > This is THE crime you are talking about? No. Try these: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/05/ukraine-attack-on-lgbti-event-highlights-police-failure-to-confront-far-right-violence/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/05/ukraine-attac... https://freedomhouse.org/article/ukraine-authorities-should-respond-attacks-targeting-peaceful-demonstrations https://freedomhouse.org/article/ukraine-authorities-should-... https://khpg.org/en/1517275970 https://khpg.org/en/1517275970 https://freedomhouse.org/article/ukraine-authorities-should-respond-attacks-targeting-peaceful-demonstrations https://freedomhouse.org/article/ukraine-authorities-should-... https://freedomhouse.org/report/analytical-brief/2018/far-right-extremism-threat-ukrainian-democracy https://freedomhouse.org/report/analytical-brief/2018/far-ri... https://www.rferl.org/a/30388461.html https://www.rferl.org/a/30388461.html
- foxfluff 5y ago
  > Ukraine has neonazi militias that enjoy some level of government support and that have been involved in violent incidents in the past. I'm trying to say that this would likely happen in any country where political unrest and corruption leads to a violent change of regime. That militia formed during Euromaidan, and they are useful to the government in so far as they are against occupation by Russia. Just as Nazi Germany was useful to my country (Finland) in the second world war. Nazi bad, but a small group with nationalistic ideals fighting for the nation doesn't mean the nation is nazi, and it would be irrational to reject the aid of such a group in the fight against occupation. It'd be good for virtue signalling at most but you don't fight a country the size of Russia or China by thoughts and prayer and virtue signalling. And I'm pretty sure Putin would have some excuse for attacking Ukraine with or without a minuscle amount of neo-nazis in the soup. If Ireland is invaded by a giant neighbor, the government isn't going to ask their infantry whether they're nationalists before letting them fight for your country. If Putin thinks nazis are the reason to invade a country, he ought to invade Finland too. I'd still hope our nationalist party takes up arms and goes to the front lines to defend Finland. And they should have the Government's full support in doing so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finns_Party#Ideology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finns_Party#Ideology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finns_Party#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finns_Party#Controversies
  - rbanffy 5y ago
    > I'd still hope our nationalist party takes up arms and goes to the front lines to defend Finland. And they should have the Government's full support in doing so. As usual, the problem is how you deal with them later, after they got access to weapons and military training and, perhaps more dangerous, some political legitimacy as war heroes.

rbanffy 5y ago

> Talk about nazism is a mere distraction and something Putin's trolls would do. Please don't. It's a bit more complicated than that. Ukraine has neonazi militias that enjoy some level of government support and that have been involved in violent incidents in the past. This, of course, does not justify an invasion by a foreign power. Ukraine currently ranks very low as a functional democracy (we can give them some slack on that, since they've been essentially invaded since 2014). I'm still not sure what's the upside of this for Russia, or for Putin. As the article points out, invasions take months, if not years, of planning. While the decision to stand down can be made at any point, the decision to invade has to wait for all the pieces to be in place. Whatever the end-goal is, it's not Ukraine.

drran 5y ago
Let me quote Wikipedia about Azov regiment: > On 11 August, Azov battalion, backed by Ukrainian paratroopers, captured Marinka from pro-Russian rebels and entered the suburbs of Donetsk clashing with Donetsk People's Republic fighters. So, I assume, the Ukraininan Nazi are killing Donetsk People's Republic fighters? This is THE crime you are talking about?
- rbanffy 5y ago
  > This is THE crime you are talking about? No. Try these: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/05/ukraine-attack-on-lgbti-event-highlights-police-failure-to-confront-far-right-violence/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/05/ukraine-attac... https://freedomhouse.org/article/ukraine-authorities-should-respond-attacks-targeting-peaceful-demonstrations https://freedomhouse.org/article/ukraine-authorities-should-... https://khpg.org/en/1517275970 https://khpg.org/en/1517275970 https://freedomhouse.org/article/ukraine-authorities-should-respond-attacks-targeting-peaceful-demonstrations https://freedomhouse.org/article/ukraine-authorities-should-... https://freedomhouse.org/report/analytical-brief/2018/far-right-extremism-threat-ukrainian-democracy https://freedomhouse.org/report/analytical-brief/2018/far-ri... https://www.rferl.org/a/30388461.html https://www.rferl.org/a/30388461.html
foxfluff 5y ago
> Ukraine has neonazi militias that enjoy some level of government support and that have been involved in violent incidents in the past. I'm trying to say that this would likely happen in any country where political unrest and corruption leads to a violent change of regime. That militia formed during Euromaidan, and they are useful to the government in so far as they are against occupation by Russia. Just as Nazi Germany was useful to my country (Finland) in the second world war. Nazi bad, but a small group with nationalistic ideals fighting for the nation doesn't mean the nation is nazi, and it would be irrational to reject the aid of such a group in the fight against occupation. It'd be good for virtue signalling at most but you don't fight a country the size of Russia or China by thoughts and prayer and virtue signalling. And I'm pretty sure Putin would have some excuse for attacking Ukraine with or without a minuscle amount of neo-nazis in the soup. If Ireland is invaded by a giant neighbor, the government isn't going to ask their infantry whether they're nationalists before letting them fight for your country. If Putin thinks nazis are the reason to invade a country, he ought to invade Finland too. I'd still hope our nationalist party takes up arms and goes to the front lines to defend Finland. And they should have the Government's full support in doing so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finns_Party#Ideology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finns_Party#Ideology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finns_Party#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finns_Party#Controversies
- rbanffy 5y ago
  > I'd still hope our nationalist party takes up arms and goes to the front lines to defend Finland. And they should have the Government's full support in doing so. As usual, the problem is how you deal with them later, after they got access to weapons and military training and, perhaps more dangerous, some political legitimacy as war heroes.