4 ms·

They are being bled dry of everything the’ve got for the Western European elite. The benefits go to the upper classes while the working people suffer.

mantas 5y ago
Coming from ex-USSR... Western European elite is much much much better than Russian elite...
beebeepka 5y ago
That's true. I know because I am from Bulgaria. We're vassals one way or another. Bled dry is correct. The entire eastern block was sold out for peanuts during the 90s. I guess that was the price for joining NATO and the EU However, being US/EU vassals is better for us. I personally think that's mainly because the so called west has all the money in the world. That's the root cause. Not culture, values, etc. Those are all secondary to having money for so long. While I understand the stated reasons for the invasion, and they are much more valid then America's struggle to steal as much resources as possible from all over the world under the guise of "democracy" and "WMDs", I fear we'll be next. I don't want to be under their boots. My family has suffered enough under the Soviets It fucking sucks to be on the outskirts
- oblio 5y ago
  You do know that Bulgaria, just like Romania, is crap at using EU development funds, right? Your country could look like Austria by now if you wouldn't be so corrupt. Look in the mirror first. How do you explain Slovenia or Estonia or Poland with your world outlook?
  - beebeepka 5y ago
    I agree. Bulgaria was on the right track until 2009. It's almost as if different countries face different realities. Corruption does not happen in a vacuum. Ultimately, the responsibility lies to those with power. What I am saying is geopolitics are not decided by the common person. You seem to disagree and that's fine
    - oblio 5y ago
      I think we're probably more aligned than you think :-) I think society is a slow, lumbering beast that's hard to turn around, and very unpredictable. I think that elites generally control things and the average person can't do much. But if <<only>> elites control <<always>> things and only in <<their>> favor, then we can't explain how developed countries happened. Long story short: the common person can't do much in general, but sometimes they can. Otherwise we can't explain stuff like Taiwan or South Korea or Estonia or Czechia or Slovenia or Ireland or whatever. So that means that the common person has a super low chance of changing anything, but that's their only hope. Giving up means that you have <<no>> chance, <<ever>>. And that's how you end up with Ukraine pre-2008 or Moldova pre-2014.
      - beebeepka 5y ago
        Yes, I agree with everything you said. Voting and protesting matter. Expression matters and is very important despite everything I said earlier. Otherwise everything would be even more alike than it is now. Your logic is sound.
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        Common people have a lot of power: if they unite. See Solidarnosc in Poland for a great example.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      It is a real pity because the same amount of money applied effectively instead of looted would have made Bulgaria the Switzerland of the East by now. I've visited your country and love it there - and love the people - but the road to go is a long one.
      - oblio 5y ago
        The thing is, it would actually save them from their population problems. For example in Poland they managed to raise their economy enough that people just stopped leaving. So even the demographic part is self inflicted. Corruption -> poverty -> people leaving the country.
oblio 5y ago
Ever heard of EU development funds? Foreign investment? The problem is local. Corruption. And I'd take Western elites over Russian ones any day of the week. There are 0 (ZERO!) developed countries in the Russian sphere of influence.

mantas 5y ago

Coming from ex-USSR... Western European elite is much much much better than Russian elite...

beebeepka 5y ago

That's true. I know because I am from Bulgaria. We're vassals one way or another. Bled dry is correct. The entire eastern block was sold out for peanuts during the 90s. I guess that was the price for joining NATO and the EU However, being US/EU vassals is better for us. I personally think that's mainly because the so called west has all the money in the world. That's the root cause. Not culture, values, etc. Those are all secondary to having money for so long. While I understand the stated reasons for the invasion, and they are much more valid then America's struggle to steal as much resources as possible from all over the world under the guise of "democracy" and "WMDs", I fear we'll be next. I don't want to be under their boots. My family has suffered enough under the Soviets It fucking sucks to be on the outskirts

oblio 5y ago
You do know that Bulgaria, just like Romania, is crap at using EU development funds, right? Your country could look like Austria by now if you wouldn't be so corrupt. Look in the mirror first. How do you explain Slovenia or Estonia or Poland with your world outlook?
- beebeepka 5y ago
  I agree. Bulgaria was on the right track until 2009. It's almost as if different countries face different realities. Corruption does not happen in a vacuum. Ultimately, the responsibility lies to those with power. What I am saying is geopolitics are not decided by the common person. You seem to disagree and that's fine
  - oblio 5y ago
    I think we're probably more aligned than you think :-) I think society is a slow, lumbering beast that's hard to turn around, and very unpredictable. I think that elites generally control things and the average person can't do much. But if <<only>> elites control <<always>> things and only in <<their>> favor, then we can't explain how developed countries happened. Long story short: the common person can't do much in general, but sometimes they can. Otherwise we can't explain stuff like Taiwan or South Korea or Estonia or Czechia or Slovenia or Ireland or whatever. So that means that the common person has a super low chance of changing anything, but that's their only hope. Giving up means that you have <<no>> chance, <<ever>>. And that's how you end up with Ukraine pre-2008 or Moldova pre-2014.
    - beebeepka 5y ago
      Yes, I agree with everything you said. Voting and protesting matter. Expression matters and is very important despite everything I said earlier. Otherwise everything would be even more alike than it is now. Your logic is sound.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      Common people have a lot of power: if they unite. See Solidarnosc in Poland for a great example.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    It is a real pity because the same amount of money applied effectively instead of looted would have made Bulgaria the Switzerland of the East by now. I've visited your country and love it there - and love the people - but the road to go is a long one.
    - oblio 5y ago
      The thing is, it would actually save them from their population problems. For example in Poland they managed to raise their economy enough that people just stopped leaving. So even the demographic part is self inflicted. Corruption -> poverty -> people leaving the country.

oblio 5y ago

Ever heard of EU development funds? Foreign investment? The problem is local. Corruption. And I'd take Western elites over Russian ones any day of the week. There are 0 (ZERO!) developed countries in the Russian sphere of influence.