4 ms·

By all accounts octopus intelligence is extremely overblown. And "sentience" is an extremely low bar. Compare the intelligence of a cow or pig or similar mamma

By all accounts octopus intelligence is extremely overblown. And "sentience" is an extremely low bar. Compare the intelligence of a cow or pig or similar mammal to an octopus and the mammal will DESTROY the octopus. We tolerate farming these animals. Much to our own detriment in terms of health, and nutrition, and environmental impact, land usage, and water usage. Plus there is the problem of breeding MRSA. Plus they are horrible for our gut bacteria. Also they are sentient, intelligent creatures we subject to horrific environments. Keep in mind, I say this as someone who is NOT a vegan. But I digress... Not to say octopus are not charming animals, and you should support eating and farming them. I just think it is a bit hypocritical to allow the farming of other sentient creatures.

sweetheart 5y ago
Why not just go vegan if you believe all that?
- bastawhiz 5y ago
  It's possible to point out contradictions of beliefs without having those beliefs yourself.
  - sweetheart 5y ago
    Sure, but what’s stopping you from holding that belief then?
    - bastawhiz 5y ago
      Apathy? Lack of motivation to take personal action?
      - sweetheart 5y ago
        You should try it. I started out without giving two shits about animals. Now it’s the thing I feel most strongly about, and it has given my life much deeper meaning and direction. Maybe you’ll feel the same!
bentona 5y ago
> Compare the intelligence of a cow or pig or similar mammal to an octopus and the mammal will DESTROY the octopus What studies do you have in mind?
friedturkey 5y ago
> Compare the intelligence of a cow or pig or similar mammal to an octopus and the mammal will DESTROY the octopus. Octopuses are incredible because we've found the opposite. Octopuses are solving pretty complicated puzzles oftentimes for fun the same way people do. Cows don't. Cows do have social bonds closer to humans, though.
- deutschewelle 5y ago
  How do you know cows dont have fun too or engage in complex problem solving? Pigs seem quite intelligent also and capable of solving puzzles as do crows. Seems like having fun is a natural part of all sentient beings as boredom is inevitable. Could it be that the novelty of discovering that octopus, a crustacean after thought, could suddenly be as intelligent if not more than the pig (thought to be more intelligent than a canine), prevent you from consuming it? Is the irony of people shouting Octopus Lives Matter protesting against its farming but not the massive industrial scale beef/pork production capacities not clear? Why even stop there? What if tomorrow you learn plants were able to perform puzzles and solve problems, would you view your veggies differently? An awful criteria for determining what is morally sound to consume as food, can humans also be consumed if they are unable to solve a simple Rubrik's cube? What if they are inside a box where your perception of whether the subject is having fun or not determines their life or death, upon the latter, you are morally safe and sound in partaking in cannibalism?
AngryData 5y ago
Are there study's to back up the lack of octopus intelligence? Because if we are comparing octopus to other farm animals, most farm animals are dumb as a box of rocks compared to wild cousins or ancestors. We bred most farm animals to be dumb in process of domestication in order to keep them contained, the smart ones can escape, while the dumb ones get easily bred. Ive never seen anything to make me believe my cows are even remotely as intelligent as a wild animal and consider them the extremely dull mutant cousins of their ancestors.
- pensatoio 5y ago
  I would argue you need set a bar for intelligence and then prove a creature meets or exceeds it. Trying to come at it from the other end leaves you in impossible situations where extremes like, "trees are connected and therefore are sentient," become an acceptable motivation.
  - nefitty 5y ago
    Sentience is more akin to the preference to avoid pain. Intelligence plays a role in the expression of sentience, but it is ultimately more akin to an ability rather than a preference trait as sentience is.

sweetheart 5y ago

Why not just go vegan if you believe all that?

bastawhiz 5y ago
It's possible to point out contradictions of beliefs without having those beliefs yourself.
- sweetheart 5y ago
  Sure, but what’s stopping you from holding that belief then?
  - bastawhiz 5y ago
    Apathy? Lack of motivation to take personal action?
    - sweetheart 5y ago
      You should try it. I started out without giving two shits about animals. Now it’s the thing I feel most strongly about, and it has given my life much deeper meaning and direction. Maybe you’ll feel the same!

bentona 5y ago

> Compare the intelligence of a cow or pig or similar mammal to an octopus and the mammal will DESTROY the octopus What studies do you have in mind?

friedturkey 5y ago

> Compare the intelligence of a cow or pig or similar mammal to an octopus and the mammal will DESTROY the octopus. Octopuses are incredible because we've found the opposite. Octopuses are solving pretty complicated puzzles oftentimes for fun the same way people do. Cows don't. Cows do have social bonds closer to humans, though.

deutschewelle 5y ago
How do you know cows dont have fun too or engage in complex problem solving? Pigs seem quite intelligent also and capable of solving puzzles as do crows. Seems like having fun is a natural part of all sentient beings as boredom is inevitable. Could it be that the novelty of discovering that octopus, a crustacean after thought, could suddenly be as intelligent if not more than the pig (thought to be more intelligent than a canine), prevent you from consuming it? Is the irony of people shouting Octopus Lives Matter protesting against its farming but not the massive industrial scale beef/pork production capacities not clear? Why even stop there? What if tomorrow you learn plants were able to perform puzzles and solve problems, would you view your veggies differently? An awful criteria for determining what is morally sound to consume as food, can humans also be consumed if they are unable to solve a simple Rubrik's cube? What if they are inside a box where your perception of whether the subject is having fun or not determines their life or death, upon the latter, you are morally safe and sound in partaking in cannibalism?

AngryData 5y ago

Are there study's to back up the lack of octopus intelligence? Because if we are comparing octopus to other farm animals, most farm animals are dumb as a box of rocks compared to wild cousins or ancestors. We bred most farm animals to be dumb in process of domestication in order to keep them contained, the smart ones can escape, while the dumb ones get easily bred. Ive never seen anything to make me believe my cows are even remotely as intelligent as a wild animal and consider them the extremely dull mutant cousins of their ancestors.

pensatoio 5y ago
I would argue you need set a bar for intelligence and then prove a creature meets or exceeds it. Trying to come at it from the other end leaves you in impossible situations where extremes like, "trees are connected and therefore are sentient," become an acceptable motivation.
- nefitty 5y ago
  Sentience is more akin to the preference to avoid pain. Intelligence plays a role in the expression of sentience, but it is ultimately more akin to an ability rather than a preference trait as sentience is.