7 ms·

Moving away from Windows – It begins

52 points by pndy 5y ago

cable2600 5y ago
Instead of Linux one can use https://www.haiku-os.org https://www.haiku-os.org Haku Beta3 for now. Soon it will run WINE and be out of beta by the time Windows 10 is out of date.
- shadowofneptune 5y ago
  The reason I primarily use Linux instead of Windows, and what I imagine is a compelling reason for a lot of other people, is the GNU developer utilities (binutils, autoconf, make, etc.) and the various package managers. With no standard package management or build system for C, this makes it much easier to compile the vast amount of C projects out there. A quick search finds that Haiku uses these tools, and also has a package manager. How mature are these for C development?
- iamevn 5y ago
  This sort of purposely single-user OS is really interesting to me. I really don't need to pretend my computer needs to support many simultaneous users with various access controls. It's just me on pretty much all of my devices. As long as the OS can multitask decently (a big feature of BeOS) and I can sandbox untrusted stuff I might want to run, I'm not sure if I need anything more. Also I'm really grateful for Haiku since it made a hand-me-down laptop which has a CPU clock speed measured in Mhz and a built in floppy drive feel snappy and useful where even Lubuntu stuttered back during one of the R1 alphas.
GekkePrutser 5y ago
> It won't stop until desktop as a service is a reality and all that nonsense. It's already a reality. You can rent a desktop from Azure. I'm surprised MS isn't selling a sleek cheap thin client for it yet. For corporate work I don't think it's a bad thing. For home use yeah I agree. They can fuck off with those MS accounts. My computer belongs to me and me alone. PS and no. I'm not using a Google account on my android phone either :)
- aliswe 5y ago
  thin clients have been attempted numerous times in history (remember the Sun ones?), but as far as I know none really succeeded?
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    They're succeeding pretty well in places that do VDI. The thing is, VDI has not really been mainstream. I've seen it in high-reliability (or high-flexibility) places like callcenters and medical facilities and high-security places like police. My current employer still uses them in some callcenters. Now that cloud VDI is easy to buy, it could become a true alternative for small businesses if a cheap thin client is available. Sure, they won't work without internet access but really, pretty much all work requires internet now. Right now Dell's Wyse clients start at $700 which is a bit silly for a thin client. At that price you might as well go for a full PC. But I could see Microsoft offering them for $200 or so with an Azure Virtual Desktop contract for a couple years, and this really taking off. The Sun Rays were really niche yes, but so was Sun itself. It was a niche within a niche. And I've seen places that had those. I still have a couple Sun Ray 2's here at home in fact :)
    - faeriechangling 5y ago
      VDI is still laggy crap from the user perspective that regularly adds +50ms or +100ms or whatever to everything you do on a computer and it's worse if you're using mobile internet in particular. VDI may gets CIOs and CFOs excited but it fails to actually impress the people using the computers. You can also lease physical hardware to get into a similar financial situation to a thin client + desktop situation. The only real interest that virtual desktops are being pushed as a concept is that it makes giant dollar signs light up in Nadella's eyes, but even he has to be wary of pushing his customers into the clutches of MacOS and ChromeOS and Linux. You know what else happened the last few years? People started working from home, where a certain amount of downtime every month over a non-redundant internet connection is a matter of course. If anything VDI seemed more practical a few years ago when you could expect people to be in urban offices with redundant connections nearby some Microsoft datacentre. I've seen "thin clients" called Amazon Alexas and Google Homes enter peoples home and having to phone home to the cloud is CRAP, you want to be able to use local processing as much as possible and failover to local processing as much as possible. While most things you want to do may require an internet connection, it turns out there's a whole lot of things you can do and want to do that really don't when the internet is down. Sure VDI has its niches, like in security sensitive places where you want to keep data centralized on some servers, or in workplaces where maybe highly performant computers aren't a priority, but as somebody who LIKES computers the technology is an overcomplicated mess that is as fast as molasses when it's competing with iPadOS and Tab S7+ pushing latency down to a blistering 9ms. eSports gamers are busy replacing their glacially slow 240hz monitors with 390hz monitors. Every peripheral company is now selling low-latency wireless equipment that's as fast as wired. Apple Silicon improved QoS and used its efficiency cores to help keep its performance cores idle and ready to respond to user inputs as quickly as possible. Then you see Nadella going "you know what's a great idea? Phoning out to a datacentre and having a high-latency hardware running high-latency software do your processing whenever you double click anything".
acomjean 5y ago
Linux at this point on the desktop is pretty decent. And it seems to be the most popular operating system that gives respect and control to the user. I’ve been using it a couple years and I’ve been impressed. While I know my way around the command line I’m no system administrator but these Linux desktops seem to update pretty without much futzing. (I’m on the oddly named pop!os an Ubuntu variant). They update the os a lot though. While I’ve had some minor issues with the software installer they’ve been pretty few and far between.
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  This. I basically just use the default Ubuntu installation, don't mess with any config stuff (literally just add a few Gnome extensions) and I've had a stable, functional desktop for years now (~10 years).
- BossingAround 5y ago
  Well, my personal experience is that it works until it doesn't. I had a Lenovo Carbon for a couple years, everything worked without a hickup. Now, I have a new Lenovo T-series, and my Fedora crashes once a week, which was unheard of on my old laptop. I still think it beats any other OS for my personal needs, but it really highlighted the struggle that many people might be feeling when trying Linux. It's "no futzing" iif you have a good combination of hardware (and firmware).
  - jawilson2 5y ago
    My 2021 macbook pro crashes almost daily, I would take 1x per week at this point.
somecommit 5y ago
This post looks so old, since 20 years it's the same every times
- AnonymousPlanet 5y ago
  Funny you say that, I moved off of Windows over 20 years ago and never looked back.
simonblack 5y ago
I've never had to use Windows as my 'everyday' Operating System. I went from MSDOS to a UNIX desktop in 1991, then from a UNIX desktop to a Linux desktop in 2001. I haven't missed Windows because it isn't necessary at all for me. Having said that, I sometimes find that specific pieces of software are more convenient to use than the Linux ones I usually use. Ferinstance, my HP MFP has a multi-page feeder that I use occasionally for scanning multi-page documents. So I run the HP Scanning Software in a Windows 7 instance in VirtualBox under Linux Mint for the five minutes or so then close it down. For all my normal scanning and printing, I just use my Linux Mint.

52 points by pndy 5y ago

Instead of Linux one can use https://www.haiku-os.org https://www.haiku-os.org Haku Beta3 for now. Soon it will run WINE and be out of beta by the time Windows 10 is out of date.

shadowofneptune 5y ago
The reason I primarily use Linux instead of Windows, and what I imagine is a compelling reason for a lot of other people, is the GNU developer utilities (binutils, autoconf, make, etc.) and the various package managers. With no standard package management or build system for C, this makes it much easier to compile the vast amount of C projects out there. A quick search finds that Haiku uses these tools, and also has a package manager. How mature are these for C development?
iamevn 5y ago
This sort of purposely single-user OS is really interesting to me. I really don't need to pretend my computer needs to support many simultaneous users with various access controls. It's just me on pretty much all of my devices. As long as the OS can multitask decently (a big feature of BeOS) and I can sandbox untrusted stuff I might want to run, I'm not sure if I need anything more. Also I'm really grateful for Haiku since it made a hand-me-down laptop which has a CPU clock speed measured in Mhz and a built in floppy drive feel snappy and useful where even Lubuntu stuttered back during one of the R1 alphas.

GekkePrutser 5y ago

> It won't stop until desktop as a service is a reality and all that nonsense. It's already a reality. You can rent a desktop from Azure. I'm surprised MS isn't selling a sleek cheap thin client for it yet. For corporate work I don't think it's a bad thing. For home use yeah I agree. They can fuck off with those MS accounts. My computer belongs to me and me alone. PS and no. I'm not using a Google account on my android phone either :)

aliswe 5y ago
thin clients have been attempted numerous times in history (remember the Sun ones?), but as far as I know none really succeeded?
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  They're succeeding pretty well in places that do VDI. The thing is, VDI has not really been mainstream. I've seen it in high-reliability (or high-flexibility) places like callcenters and medical facilities and high-security places like police. My current employer still uses them in some callcenters. Now that cloud VDI is easy to buy, it could become a true alternative for small businesses if a cheap thin client is available. Sure, they won't work without internet access but really, pretty much all work requires internet now. Right now Dell's Wyse clients start at $700 which is a bit silly for a thin client. At that price you might as well go for a full PC. But I could see Microsoft offering them for $200 or so with an Azure Virtual Desktop contract for a couple years, and this really taking off. The Sun Rays were really niche yes, but so was Sun itself. It was a niche within a niche. And I've seen places that had those. I still have a couple Sun Ray 2's here at home in fact :)
  - faeriechangling 5y ago
    VDI is still laggy crap from the user perspective that regularly adds +50ms or +100ms or whatever to everything you do on a computer and it's worse if you're using mobile internet in particular. VDI may gets CIOs and CFOs excited but it fails to actually impress the people using the computers. You can also lease physical hardware to get into a similar financial situation to a thin client + desktop situation. The only real interest that virtual desktops are being pushed as a concept is that it makes giant dollar signs light up in Nadella's eyes, but even he has to be wary of pushing his customers into the clutches of MacOS and ChromeOS and Linux. You know what else happened the last few years? People started working from home, where a certain amount of downtime every month over a non-redundant internet connection is a matter of course. If anything VDI seemed more practical a few years ago when you could expect people to be in urban offices with redundant connections nearby some Microsoft datacentre. I've seen "thin clients" called Amazon Alexas and Google Homes enter peoples home and having to phone home to the cloud is CRAP, you want to be able to use local processing as much as possible and failover to local processing as much as possible. While most things you want to do may require an internet connection, it turns out there's a whole lot of things you can do and want to do that really don't when the internet is down. Sure VDI has its niches, like in security sensitive places where you want to keep data centralized on some servers, or in workplaces where maybe highly performant computers aren't a priority, but as somebody who LIKES computers the technology is an overcomplicated mess that is as fast as molasses when it's competing with iPadOS and Tab S7+ pushing latency down to a blistering 9ms. eSports gamers are busy replacing their glacially slow 240hz monitors with 390hz monitors. Every peripheral company is now selling low-latency wireless equipment that's as fast as wired. Apple Silicon improved QoS and used its efficiency cores to help keep its performance cores idle and ready to respond to user inputs as quickly as possible. Then you see Nadella going "you know what's a great idea? Phoning out to a datacentre and having a high-latency hardware running high-latency software do your processing whenever you double click anything".

acomjean 5y ago

Linux at this point on the desktop is pretty decent. And it seems to be the most popular operating system that gives respect and control to the user. I’ve been using it a couple years and I’ve been impressed. While I know my way around the command line I’m no system administrator but these Linux desktops seem to update pretty without much futzing. (I’m on the oddly named pop!os an Ubuntu variant). They update the os a lot though. While I’ve had some minor issues with the software installer they’ve been pretty few and far between.

Mikeb85 5y ago
This. I basically just use the default Ubuntu installation, don't mess with any config stuff (literally just add a few Gnome extensions) and I've had a stable, functional desktop for years now (~10 years).
BossingAround 5y ago
Well, my personal experience is that it works until it doesn't. I had a Lenovo Carbon for a couple years, everything worked without a hickup. Now, I have a new Lenovo T-series, and my Fedora crashes once a week, which was unheard of on my old laptop. I still think it beats any other OS for my personal needs, but it really highlighted the struggle that many people might be feeling when trying Linux. It's "no futzing" iif you have a good combination of hardware (and firmware).
- jawilson2 5y ago
  My 2021 macbook pro crashes almost daily, I would take 1x per week at this point.

somecommit 5y ago

This post looks so old, since 20 years it's the same every times

AnonymousPlanet 5y ago
Funny you say that, I moved off of Windows over 20 years ago and never looked back.

simonblack 5y ago

I've never had to use Windows as my 'everyday' Operating System. I went from MSDOS to a UNIX desktop in 1991, then from a UNIX desktop to a Linux desktop in 2001. I haven't missed Windows because it isn't necessary at all for me. Having said that, I sometimes find that specific pieces of software are more convenient to use than the Linux ones I usually use. Ferinstance, my HP MFP has a multi-page feeder that I use occasionally for scanning multi-page documents. So I run the HP Scanning Software in a Windows 7 instance in VirtualBox under Linux Mint for the five minutes or so then close it down. For all my normal scanning and printing, I just use my Linux Mint.