4 ms·

So wasting 1-2 hours a day being non productive is your bar for a valuable employee. I’d suggest your view comes from a bias towards red queen races being arbi

So wasting 1-2 hours a day being non productive is your bar for a valuable employee. I’d suggest your view comes from a bias towards red queen races being arbitrators of value rather than… you know… productivity. A few years ago the bar was wearing a suit to work every day with sock suspenders. Look up IBMs uniform dress code. Now we all accept that as antiquated, distracting waste.

thebean11 5y ago
Comparing dress code to working in person is pretty ridiculous. Is your claim that there is literally zero value to seeing your coworkers in person? Also not everyone has a long and/or unproductive commute.
- malermeister 5y ago
  I'd go one further and say there is often negative value to seeing coworkers in person. Distractions and idle chit-chat that can't be turned off as easily as a Slack notification can decrease productivity.
  - bravetraveler 5y ago
    I've actually timed it, any time I would go into the office almost half of the day would be filled with idle distractions and the like. Which wouldn't be so bad if, you know, I found the experience relaxing or had the slightest inclination to get to know these people [beyond how they can help solve a given problem]. Maybe I just see work differently from everyone... but we're here to do the thing and get paid. I'm not putting in anything more than what's required. [ edit: if Bob won't do $thing because we don't have enough social points, that's between him and our employer ] 'Team building' through things like these idle pleasantries and bombastic 'collaborative' seat-filling meetings are draining for people like me. Put it on my calendar, if I think I can help or have an interest - I'll stop by the call... I'm already on your side if we're trying to make things better. I really like to exercise my salary benefits of finishing my work and doing something else. Seeing the meatbags breaks asynchronous work
  - thebean11 5y ago
    I believe you that that's your specific personal experience. I don't think it's universal.
    - malermeister 5y ago
      I agree, which is why I've qualified it with "often".
weq 5y ago
The world has moved on. We came to cities looking for work. Now the internet is availible ANYWHERE, people can LIVE ANYWHERE. If your business wants to demand in-person, then you know what kind of people who you will get: - people with kids who dont have a good grasp on what work life balance is (maybe because of extended debt) - people who are single or otherwise unhappy at home, looking for companionship - people who cant feel good about themselves without chit-chat - people looking to increase their social circle - people who will think they can use social engineering to forward their career
closeparen 5y ago
Ah, yes, the famously productive Zoom meeting. Barking dogs, construction, echo cancellation artifacts, lag, “no you go ahead,” endless monologues, creepy pseudo-ASMR from people’s giant gamer headsets, Bluetooth glitches, “let me try turning off my video” for 6 hours a day. So much fucking value generation. It’s just palpable, isn’t it? You know, you’re right. It probably is the most efficient way to work, to continuously subject employees to this torture. The problem is I’m a fucking human being and there’s only so much abuse I’m going to take from you. And by being a remote worker you are, necessarily, subjecting your coworkers to this abuse every second they have to work with you. It is inherent to the notion of video calling with consumer-grade hardware on a packet switched network.
- tsunamifury 5y ago
  Dude. Get a new workplace or coworkers then. This sounds awful. Nothing like this where I work. Generally just awesome.
  - closeparen 5y ago
    Really, none of your coworkers have flaky internet or noisy surroundings? None of them are using Bluetooth or onboard microphones or speakers? Is this a company full of audio engineers working from their personal broadcast studios?
    - KronisLV 5y ago
      > Really, none of your coworkers have flaky internet or noisy surroundings? While one shouldn't discount those that are stuck in circumstances like that, no, we don't. And when their surroundings are noisy, they can just mute their microphones until they'd like to say something, which is just basic etiquette for communicating online. Or you can even pic up a microphone with a polar pattern that doesn't pick up much background noise for about 20$, which is what i did.
citizenpaul 5y ago
There are millions of do nothing middle managers whoms only job was taking roll call. Those pointless jobs are being threatned by WFH.
mschuetz 5y ago
My view comes from my dislike of communicating via mail or video conferencing, and that I just don't want my home to be a place of work. Communicating online is wildly inefficient and lacks the nuance of doing things directly in person. It's so much easier to explain/teach things in person, and also get things thought in return. One of the best experiences I've had was an internship that involved so many hands-on experiences that would never have been possible remotely. > So wasting 1-2 hours a day being non productive Wasting in what way? Commuting? I love my commute, it's a nice 25 minute morning stroll on the cycle and provides the necessary motivation/pressure to get out of the house. I'm fine with people wanting to work remotely, I'm just not okay with working together with them (unless they're here at least 2-3 times a week) as it's wildly inefficient, and also not okay with people demanding that any company must offer full 5 days WFH as if it's a god given right.
- jakupovic 5y ago
  >I'm just not okay with working together with them (unless they're here at least 2-3 times a week) Good for you as you can always vote with your feet. If others don't want to come in and work with you, then you must find a new job. But don't expect anyone else to conform to your idea of how work should be. If for nothing else but for the same reasons you are using, personal preference.
  - mschuetz 5y ago
    > Good for you as you can always vote with your feet. If others don't want to come in and work with you, then you must find a new job Sure, that's fine. It's why I'd never apply for remote positions. Luckily, where I work people still come into office.

thebean11 5y ago

Comparing dress code to working in person is pretty ridiculous. Is your claim that there is literally zero value to seeing your coworkers in person? Also not everyone has a long and/or unproductive commute.

malermeister 5y ago
I'd go one further and say there is often negative value to seeing coworkers in person. Distractions and idle chit-chat that can't be turned off as easily as a Slack notification can decrease productivity.
- bravetraveler 5y ago
  I've actually timed it, any time I would go into the office almost half of the day would be filled with idle distractions and the like. Which wouldn't be so bad if, you know, I found the experience relaxing or had the slightest inclination to get to know these people [beyond how they can help solve a given problem]. Maybe I just see work differently from everyone... but we're here to do the thing and get paid. I'm not putting in anything more than what's required. [ edit: if Bob won't do $thing because we don't have enough social points, that's between him and our employer ] 'Team building' through things like these idle pleasantries and bombastic 'collaborative' seat-filling meetings are draining for people like me. Put it on my calendar, if I think I can help or have an interest - I'll stop by the call... I'm already on your side if we're trying to make things better. I really like to exercise my salary benefits of finishing my work and doing something else. Seeing the meatbags breaks asynchronous work
- thebean11 5y ago
  I believe you that that's your specific personal experience. I don't think it's universal.
  - malermeister 5y ago
    I agree, which is why I've qualified it with "often".

weq 5y ago

The world has moved on. We came to cities looking for work. Now the internet is availible ANYWHERE, people can LIVE ANYWHERE. If your business wants to demand in-person, then you know what kind of people who you will get: - people with kids who dont have a good grasp on what work life balance is (maybe because of extended debt) - people who are single or otherwise unhappy at home, looking for companionship - people who cant feel good about themselves without chit-chat - people looking to increase their social circle - people who will think they can use social engineering to forward their career

closeparen 5y ago

Ah, yes, the famously productive Zoom meeting. Barking dogs, construction, echo cancellation artifacts, lag, “no you go ahead,” endless monologues, creepy pseudo-ASMR from people’s giant gamer headsets, Bluetooth glitches, “let me try turning off my video” for 6 hours a day. So much fucking value generation. It’s just palpable, isn’t it? You know, you’re right. It probably is the most efficient way to work, to continuously subject employees to this torture. The problem is I’m a fucking human being and there’s only so much abuse I’m going to take from you. And by being a remote worker you are, necessarily, subjecting your coworkers to this abuse every second they have to work with you. It is inherent to the notion of video calling with consumer-grade hardware on a packet switched network.

tsunamifury 5y ago
Dude. Get a new workplace or coworkers then. This sounds awful. Nothing like this where I work. Generally just awesome.
- closeparen 5y ago
  Really, none of your coworkers have flaky internet or noisy surroundings? None of them are using Bluetooth or onboard microphones or speakers? Is this a company full of audio engineers working from their personal broadcast studios?
  - KronisLV 5y ago
    > Really, none of your coworkers have flaky internet or noisy surroundings? While one shouldn't discount those that are stuck in circumstances like that, no, we don't. And when their surroundings are noisy, they can just mute their microphones until they'd like to say something, which is just basic etiquette for communicating online. Or you can even pic up a microphone with a polar pattern that doesn't pick up much background noise for about 20$, which is what i did.

citizenpaul 5y ago

There are millions of do nothing middle managers whoms only job was taking roll call. Those pointless jobs are being threatned by WFH.

mschuetz 5y ago

My view comes from my dislike of communicating via mail or video conferencing, and that I just don't want my home to be a place of work. Communicating online is wildly inefficient and lacks the nuance of doing things directly in person. It's so much easier to explain/teach things in person, and also get things thought in return. One of the best experiences I've had was an internship that involved so many hands-on experiences that would never have been possible remotely. > So wasting 1-2 hours a day being non productive Wasting in what way? Commuting? I love my commute, it's a nice 25 minute morning stroll on the cycle and provides the necessary motivation/pressure to get out of the house. I'm fine with people wanting to work remotely, I'm just not okay with working together with them (unless they're here at least 2-3 times a week) as it's wildly inefficient, and also not okay with people demanding that any company must offer full 5 days WFH as if it's a god given right.

jakupovic 5y ago
>I'm just not okay with working together with them (unless they're here at least 2-3 times a week) Good for you as you can always vote with your feet. If others don't want to come in and work with you, then you must find a new job. But don't expect anyone else to conform to your idea of how work should be. If for nothing else but for the same reasons you are using, personal preference.
- mschuetz 5y ago
  > Good for you as you can always vote with your feet. If others don't want to come in and work with you, then you must find a new job Sure, that's fine. It's why I'd never apply for remote positions. Luckily, where I work people still come into office.