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So you're still pushing the crazy conspiracy theory that Trump was Putin's puppet? The more likely explanation is, IMO, that Trump was just unhinged enough to

by tomp 5y ago

So you're still pushing the crazy conspiracy theory that Trump was Putin's puppet? The more likely explanation is, IMO, that Trump was just unhinged enough to actually do something, unlike the mellow Biden, who'll obviously just sit and wait (or, well, sleep).

waffle_maniac 5y ago
What? Trump had an anti-war platform. That’s why his response to Iran was so weak (and why he allowed them to return fire to save face). Also, he let Erdogan do whatever he wanted. And the Saudis. He didn’t care! And even if you don’t believe that, Trump is currently okay with the invasion.
- tomp 5y ago
  Trump has an anti-war, contain the bully platform. He introduced new sanctions for Iran and killed one of their highest ranking officers. Precision strikes instead of wasteful wars. Turkey and SA are US allies, Trump just continued that long-standing policy, as does Biden. > And even if you don’t believe that, Trump is currently okay with the invasion. Quote? Trump said Putin's "pretty smart", which, judging by their progress towards Kyiv, and the lack of response by the West, well, you can't say it's not smart (at least in the short term... long term, remains to be seen).
  - tomrod 5y ago
    For you and parent commentator: the topic of the thread is Ukraine's invasion by Russian imperial forces. Let us not devolve into the Rorschach test that is Trump's administration and our personal interpretations. It serves no purpose but to feed relative trolls.
    - waffle_maniac 5y ago
      > For you and parent commentator: the topic of the thread is Ukraine's invasion by Russian imperial forces. This is a sub thread discussing some nuance of how we got to this point. > Let us not devolve into the Rorschach test that is Trump's administration and our personal interpretations. I don't appreciate the gratuitous insult that we can't objectively discuss the actions of a past president.
      - tomrod 5y ago
        > I don't appreciate the gratuitous insult that we can't objectively discuss the actions of a past president. Regardless of any point made on the subject, what one side considers objective, the other side considers biased and tainted. Your rejoinder on the existential insult (though a consequence of human nature) is noted -- and your wish shared that we could exist with any real semblance of objectivity. We primates aren't objective creatures when it comes to arguments that at least one side has turned its axioms into articles of faith. For the record, I expect we agree substantively on an analysis of Trump's presidency, both in terms of motivations, outcomes, and impacts.
outworlder 5y ago
Nothing crazy about it. Trump praised Putin at every turn (even did that again today and called the invasion "smart"). Went against NATO. Had closed door meetings and got rid of the transcripts. Asked that the US ambassador to Ukraine be fired. Wanted dirt on Biden in exchange for releasing the (congress-approved) military aid to Ukraine. And so on. An entire book could be written on this based only on public information.
- __blockcipher__ 5y ago
  https://youtu.be/Vpwkdmwui3k?t=133 https://youtu.be/Vpwkdmwui3k?t=133 If Trump is Putin's puppet why did he publicly criticize Germany for being overly reliant on Russian pipelines for their energy needs?

by tomp 5y ago

waffle_maniac 5y ago

What? Trump had an anti-war platform. That’s why his response to Iran was so weak (and why he allowed them to return fire to save face). Also, he let Erdogan do whatever he wanted. And the Saudis. He didn’t care! And even if you don’t believe that, Trump is currently okay with the invasion.

tomp 5y ago
Trump has an anti-war, contain the bully platform. He introduced new sanctions for Iran and killed one of their highest ranking officers. Precision strikes instead of wasteful wars. Turkey and SA are US allies, Trump just continued that long-standing policy, as does Biden. > And even if you don’t believe that, Trump is currently okay with the invasion. Quote? Trump said Putin's "pretty smart", which, judging by their progress towards Kyiv, and the lack of response by the West, well, you can't say it's not smart (at least in the short term... long term, remains to be seen).
- tomrod 5y ago
  For you and parent commentator: the topic of the thread is Ukraine's invasion by Russian imperial forces. Let us not devolve into the Rorschach test that is Trump's administration and our personal interpretations. It serves no purpose but to feed relative trolls.
  - waffle_maniac 5y ago
    > For you and parent commentator: the topic of the thread is Ukraine's invasion by Russian imperial forces. This is a sub thread discussing some nuance of how we got to this point. > Let us not devolve into the Rorschach test that is Trump's administration and our personal interpretations. I don't appreciate the gratuitous insult that we can't objectively discuss the actions of a past president.
    - tomrod 5y ago
      > I don't appreciate the gratuitous insult that we can't objectively discuss the actions of a past president. Regardless of any point made on the subject, what one side considers objective, the other side considers biased and tainted. Your rejoinder on the existential insult (though a consequence of human nature) is noted -- and your wish shared that we could exist with any real semblance of objectivity. We primates aren't objective creatures when it comes to arguments that at least one side has turned its axioms into articles of faith. For the record, I expect we agree substantively on an analysis of Trump's presidency, both in terms of motivations, outcomes, and impacts.

outworlder 5y ago

Nothing crazy about it. Trump praised Putin at every turn (even did that again today and called the invasion "smart"). Went against NATO. Had closed door meetings and got rid of the transcripts. Asked that the US ambassador to Ukraine be fired. Wanted dirt on Biden in exchange for releasing the (congress-approved) military aid to Ukraine. And so on. An entire book could be written on this based only on public information.

__blockcipher__ 5y ago
https://youtu.be/Vpwkdmwui3k?t=133 https://youtu.be/Vpwkdmwui3k?t=133 If Trump is Putin's puppet why did he publicly criticize Germany for being overly reliant on Russian pipelines for their energy needs?