4 ms·

Nope. In some cases not fighting against something is the same as supporting it. And the people behind those companies are human too, they have their own though

by sofixa 5y ago

Nope. In some cases not fighting against something is the same as supporting it. And the people behind those companies are human too, they have their own thoughts, passions, fears. I'd condemn my employer if they stood idly by a war crime literally impacting employees and their families.

kodah 5y ago
Kind of off topic, but Russia hasn't comitted a war crime. They've committed an act of war. Not really the same thing.
- sofixa 5y ago
  They have bombarded civilian targets - there are multiple pictures and videos of civilian buildings and infrastructure such as roads being bombed, with civilians dying. That's very war crimey. Furthermore, crimes against peace are a type of war crime.
  - kodah 5y ago
    There's a long road to calling that a war crime. Largely what has to be shown is that they meant to target civilians and that there is absolutely no case in which they're targeting Ukrainian forces. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime I suspect you're probably right, that they did so intentionally, but using the right words matters.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - caeril 5y ago
    Well I guess we need to send every US President since Eisenhower to the Hague in chains, then. Don't act like Russia is some sort of unique evil, here. The gallons of blood spilled in collateral damage to innocent civilians by US, US-led, or US-financed operations in countries we have absolutely no business being in can fill swimming pools. Literally anybody writing, posting, tweeting, or writing column-inches about the horrible action by Russia from US soil needs to stop, notice where they are, and recognize that OUR government is orders of magnitude worse, and has been at it for far, far longer. I will fault the Russians for one thing, here. The FSB should have fabricated evidence of WMDs held in Kiev, claimed that Zelensky was murdering babies, then went in under the banner of Freedom(tm). This silly business of conducting military options unapologetically for national interests is so old-fashioned. Lying to the world through your media mouthpieces is the way to do it. You'd think there'd still be some of that Pravda spirit left over from the USSR, but I guess not.
    - ttyprintk 5y ago
      Parent may not be a US citizen, and might bravely be saying their opinion within reach of Russia. No context of USA is necessary.
    - sofixa 5y ago
      I'm not American, and yes, most US presidents and army commanders and CIA pieces of shit should be brought to The Hague for their war crimes.
    - DubiousPusher 5y ago
      I find myself possessed of this strange power to disdain the imperial ambitions of both the USA and Russia.
- jay_kyburz 5y ago
  I'm not a lawyer, soldier, or diplomat, but by my reading of this definition of war crimes, they have. > https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docindex/v1_rul_rule156 https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docindex/v1...
  - kodah 5y ago
    The ICC is what decides a war crime from a military action or act of war, and that takes in a lot of variables it would be difficult to account for. There'll be long investigations after this to figure things out, I'm sure. As I said in another reply, if I was a betting man, I would agree; however, I also dislike the popularization of the term war crime and just throwing it around.
    - jay_kyburz 5y ago
      War Criminal or simply Mass Murderer. The leaders who instigated the killing should spend their remaining years in jail.
- munk-a 5y ago
  Well, right now they've officially committed a "special military action" not a war - and there is plenty of stuff that was happening before even that weaksauce declaration came in. That all said, they have been conducting mass detention of civilians in Ukraine so I think we've probably got some borderline war-crime actions. It'll take a long time to sort out exactly everything that's happened today and the last week - but I'd be surprised if war crimes weren't occurring. That all said, war crimes are defined by the victor and their declaration and potential repercussions for them is an entirely political process. Countries exist at a scale where the "immutable definition of the law" isn't a thing that actually exists - unless we had a sole disinterested super-power that far surpassed every other power on earth and was able to serve as an impartial judge we can't really have the same concept of a legal system at the international level - this is why The Hague is usually focused on regional conflicts where China, the US, and everyone else has a little enough of a vested interest that they're happy to just score some PR points. Yes the world is depressing, but it is the way it is.
  - kodah 5y ago
    > That all said, war crimes are defined by the victor and their declaration and potential repercussions for them is an entirely political process. This is why I pointed out that what they're describing is not a war crime yet. What you're saying is not true, there is a court that deals with war crimes and they do have specific definitions. Unfortunately the term has been popularized and liberally thrown around since then, giving birth to this idea that war crimes are somehow only a colloquial term for bad things happening. Check out: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_court https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_court The court that tries war crimes, and also defines them based on Geneva conventions. The Liebor Code, Hague Conventions, and Nuremberg Principles all heavily influenced the Geneva Convention.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
version_five 5y ago
> not fighting against something is the same as supporting it This is nonsense. This quickly leads to people putting all sorts of demands on companies to support causes they have nothing to do with, and assumes that everyone needs to have the same priorities you do. It's a fallacious, "my cause is more important than anything" argument. If a company's owners, for whatever reason want to get involved in politics, that's up to them. But this "silence is violence" nonsense is not just a low effort rhetorical device to make people shift resources to your cause.

by sofixa 5y ago

kodah 5y ago

Kind of off topic, but Russia hasn't comitted a war crime. They've committed an act of war. Not really the same thing.

sofixa 5y ago
They have bombarded civilian targets - there are multiple pictures and videos of civilian buildings and infrastructure such as roads being bombed, with civilians dying. That's very war crimey. Furthermore, crimes against peace are a type of war crime.
- kodah 5y ago
  There's a long road to calling that a war crime. Largely what has to be shown is that they meant to target civilians and that there is absolutely no case in which they're targeting Ukrainian forces. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime I suspect you're probably right, that they did so intentionally, but using the right words matters.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- caeril 5y ago
  Well I guess we need to send every US President since Eisenhower to the Hague in chains, then. Don't act like Russia is some sort of unique evil, here. The gallons of blood spilled in collateral damage to innocent civilians by US, US-led, or US-financed operations in countries we have absolutely no business being in can fill swimming pools. Literally anybody writing, posting, tweeting, or writing column-inches about the horrible action by Russia from US soil needs to stop, notice where they are, and recognize that OUR government is orders of magnitude worse, and has been at it for far, far longer. I will fault the Russians for one thing, here. The FSB should have fabricated evidence of WMDs held in Kiev, claimed that Zelensky was murdering babies, then went in under the banner of Freedom(tm). This silly business of conducting military options unapologetically for national interests is so old-fashioned. Lying to the world through your media mouthpieces is the way to do it. You'd think there'd still be some of that Pravda spirit left over from the USSR, but I guess not.
  - ttyprintk 5y ago
    Parent may not be a US citizen, and might bravely be saying their opinion within reach of Russia. No context of USA is necessary.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    I'm not American, and yes, most US presidents and army commanders and CIA pieces of shit should be brought to The Hague for their war crimes.
  - DubiousPusher 5y ago
    I find myself possessed of this strange power to disdain the imperial ambitions of both the USA and Russia.
jay_kyburz 5y ago
I'm not a lawyer, soldier, or diplomat, but by my reading of this definition of war crimes, they have. > https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docindex/v1_rul_rule156 https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docindex/v1...
- kodah 5y ago
  The ICC is what decides a war crime from a military action or act of war, and that takes in a lot of variables it would be difficult to account for. There'll be long investigations after this to figure things out, I'm sure. As I said in another reply, if I was a betting man, I would agree; however, I also dislike the popularization of the term war crime and just throwing it around.
  - jay_kyburz 5y ago
    War Criminal or simply Mass Murderer. The leaders who instigated the killing should spend their remaining years in jail.
munk-a 5y ago
Well, right now they've officially committed a "special military action" not a war - and there is plenty of stuff that was happening before even that weaksauce declaration came in. That all said, they have been conducting mass detention of civilians in Ukraine so I think we've probably got some borderline war-crime actions. It'll take a long time to sort out exactly everything that's happened today and the last week - but I'd be surprised if war crimes weren't occurring. That all said, war crimes are defined by the victor and their declaration and potential repercussions for them is an entirely political process. Countries exist at a scale where the "immutable definition of the law" isn't a thing that actually exists - unless we had a sole disinterested super-power that far surpassed every other power on earth and was able to serve as an impartial judge we can't really have the same concept of a legal system at the international level - this is why The Hague is usually focused on regional conflicts where China, the US, and everyone else has a little enough of a vested interest that they're happy to just score some PR points. Yes the world is depressing, but it is the way it is.
- kodah 5y ago
  > That all said, war crimes are defined by the victor and their declaration and potential repercussions for them is an entirely political process. This is why I pointed out that what they're describing is not a war crime yet. What you're saying is not true, there is a court that deals with war crimes and they do have specific definitions. Unfortunately the term has been popularized and liberally thrown around since then, giving birth to this idea that war crimes are somehow only a colloquial term for bad things happening. Check out: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_court https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_court The court that tries war crimes, and also defines them based on Geneva conventions. The Liebor Code, Hague Conventions, and Nuremberg Principles all heavily influenced the Geneva Convention.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

version_five 5y ago

> not fighting against something is the same as supporting it This is nonsense. This quickly leads to people putting all sorts of demands on companies to support causes they have nothing to do with, and assumes that everyone needs to have the same priorities you do. It's a fallacious, "my cause is more important than anything" argument. If a company's owners, for whatever reason want to get involved in politics, that's up to them. But this "silence is violence" nonsense is not just a low effort rhetorical device to make people shift resources to your cause.