5 ms·

Companies should not involve in politics

by jcq3 5y ago

ivanmontillam 5y ago
Companies do involve into politics because otherwise they negate their own existence. Do you negate air and yet breathe? Pretty much the same thing.
Vosporos 5y ago
To think that companies exist out of the political sphere is at best naive, at worst utterly delusional.
- TheFreim 5y ago
  > To think that companies exist out of the political sphere is at best naive, at worst utterly delusional. I'm not who you're replying to and don't necessarily agree with them but they did say that companies /should/ stay out of politics. They think it's better if they aren't, not denying that in the real world politics does have influence.
dsr_ 5y ago
Almost everything interesting involving multiple humans can be described as politics.
- acheron 5y ago
  In which case the word doesn’t mean anything. Regardless of whether you agree, you know what the OP meant, because “politics” has a meaning, and it’s not “everything”.
  - dsr_ 5y ago
    Sure. But companies are inherently political. They survive because of guarantees from the political system in which they live, and different political systems produce different kinds of businesses. I don't say that the OP produced an unmeaningful sentence. I say OP is incorrect.
sofixa 5y ago
Nope. In some cases not fighting against something is the same as supporting it. And the people behind those companies are human too, they have their own thoughts, passions, fears. I'd condemn my employer if they stood idly by a war crime literally impacting employees and their families.
- kodah 5y ago
  Kind of off topic, but Russia hasn't comitted a war crime. They've committed an act of war. Not really the same thing.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    They have bombarded civilian targets - there are multiple pictures and videos of civilian buildings and infrastructure such as roads being bombed, with civilians dying. That's very war crimey. Furthermore, crimes against peace are a type of war crime.
    - kodah 5y ago
      There's a long road to calling that a war crime. Largely what has to be shown is that they meant to target civilians and that there is absolutely no case in which they're targeting Ukrainian forces. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime I suspect you're probably right, that they did so intentionally, but using the right words matters.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - caeril 5y ago
      Well I guess we need to send every US President since Eisenhower to the Hague in chains, then. Don't act like Russia is some sort of unique evil, here. The gallons of blood spilled in collateral damage to innocent civilians by US, US-led, or US-financed operations in countries we have absolutely no business being in can fill swimming pools. Literally anybody writing, posting, tweeting, or writing column-inches about the horrible action by Russia from US soil needs to stop, notice where they are, and recognize that OUR government is orders of magnitude worse, and has been at it for far, far longer. I will fault the Russians for one thing, here. The FSB should have fabricated evidence of WMDs held in Kiev, claimed that Zelensky was murdering babies, then went in under the banner of Freedom(tm). This silly business of conducting military options unapologetically for national interests is so old-fashioned. Lying to the world through your media mouthpieces is the way to do it. You'd think there'd still be some of that Pravda spirit left over from the USSR, but I guess not.
dijit 5y ago
I actually agree. (I say this as a person who is 100% against this invasion). However the circumstances is that the IntelliJ founders are Russian, and it’s important to point out that it is not the will of the Russian people to invade Ukraine. It is Putin.
- lghh 5y ago
  It is the will of _some_ of the Russian people. It has to be. It's people doing the invading. If no Russian wanted to invade Ukraine, there would be nobody in uniform invading Ukraine.
  - dijit 5y ago
    Sure. Just like it’s the will of “some” of the UK to go to war with Iraq, despite over a million people protesting against that at the time. That people follow the government does not mean they agree. And anyway there’s been a steady stream of propaganda fed to the Russian population, it’s folly to say this isn’t Putins will being projected onto his people. The same way that the nazis got power with 30% approval and managed to use that power to go to war with the rest of Europe. I’m not saying it’s not dangerous, I’m saying it’s not all Russia. And IntelliJ are saying as such.
- CyberRabbi 5y ago
  > I say this as a person who is 100% against this invasion Thanks for clearing that up. There are commenters on HN who have a vested interest in Russia taking eastern Ukraine.
version_five 5y ago
Yes, I agree. I don't think this is such an inappropriate stance to have. It's up to the owner in the end, but personally I don't agree in mixing politics with business.
aaomidi 5y ago
Companies are literally political entities.
albertopv 5y ago
Companies make weapons, or tools to make weapons, even if not intended. An IDE could be used to develop a fighter plane control sw. Companies pay taxes that are used to also buy weapons that kill people. Everyone should be involved in politics, even companies.
munk-a 5y ago
I absolutely agree - now if only all of the companies in the US could stop lobbying for pro-business legislation we could have a fairer and more equitable world. I care a lot more about how twisted our legal system has become than companies declaring opposition to unjust wars.
lame-robot-hoax 5y ago
Companies are comprised of people and should be allowed to speak on politics if they so choose to.
dudus 5y ago
As sanctions are looming any company that is based on Russia, has offices in Russia or makes business with Russian companies are at risk of having these sanctions affect their bottom line. They simply don't have the luxury of staying out of it. Some damage control is needed
mung 5y ago
Should say... I dunno, Alphabet provide un solicited commentary on their take of... Australia's refugee detention centres? Not really. Should a Russian-based company make a statement on their country invading another as the world (of customers) looks on? Probably. Politics is everywhere, avoiding it can sometimes be an unintended statement too. Sometimes you have to state your position or others will state it for you.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
TulliusCicero 5y ago
Yes, and perhaps later they can claim to just be following orders.
pm90 5y ago
Then ban lobbying.

Companies should not involve in politics

by jcq3 5y ago

Companies should not involve in politics

Companies do involve into politics because otherwise they negate their own existence. Do you negate air and yet breathe? Pretty much the same thing.

Vosporos 5y ago

To think that companies exist out of the political sphere is at best naive, at worst utterly delusional.

TheFreim 5y ago
> To think that companies exist out of the political sphere is at best naive, at worst utterly delusional. I'm not who you're replying to and don't necessarily agree with them but they did say that companies /should/ stay out of politics. They think it's better if they aren't, not denying that in the real world politics does have influence.

dsr_ 5y ago

Almost everything interesting involving multiple humans can be described as politics.

acheron 5y ago
In which case the word doesn’t mean anything. Regardless of whether you agree, you know what the OP meant, because “politics” has a meaning, and it’s not “everything”.
- dsr_ 5y ago
  Sure. But companies are inherently political. They survive because of guarantees from the political system in which they live, and different political systems produce different kinds of businesses. I don't say that the OP produced an unmeaningful sentence. I say OP is incorrect.

sofixa 5y ago

Nope. In some cases not fighting against something is the same as supporting it. And the people behind those companies are human too, they have their own thoughts, passions, fears. I'd condemn my employer if they stood idly by a war crime literally impacting employees and their families.

kodah 5y ago
Kind of off topic, but Russia hasn't comitted a war crime. They've committed an act of war. Not really the same thing.
- sofixa 5y ago
  They have bombarded civilian targets - there are multiple pictures and videos of civilian buildings and infrastructure such as roads being bombed, with civilians dying. That's very war crimey. Furthermore, crimes against peace are a type of war crime.
  - kodah 5y ago
    There's a long road to calling that a war crime. Largely what has to be shown is that they meant to target civilians and that there is absolutely no case in which they're targeting Ukrainian forces. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime I suspect you're probably right, that they did so intentionally, but using the right words matters.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - caeril 5y ago
    Well I guess we need to send every US President since Eisenhower to the Hague in chains, then. Don't act like Russia is some sort of unique evil, here. The gallons of blood spilled in collateral damage to innocent civilians by US, US-led, or US-financed operations in countries we have absolutely no business being in can fill swimming pools. Literally anybody writing, posting, tweeting, or writing column-inches about the horrible action by Russia from US soil needs to stop, notice where they are, and recognize that OUR government is orders of magnitude worse, and has been at it for far, far longer. I will fault the Russians for one thing, here. The FSB should have fabricated evidence of WMDs held in Kiev, claimed that Zelensky was murdering babies, then went in under the banner of Freedom(tm). This silly business of conducting military options unapologetically for national interests is so old-fashioned. Lying to the world through your media mouthpieces is the way to do it. You'd think there'd still be some of that Pravda spirit left over from the USSR, but I guess not.

dijit 5y ago

I actually agree. (I say this as a person who is 100% against this invasion). However the circumstances is that the IntelliJ founders are Russian, and it’s important to point out that it is not the will of the Russian people to invade Ukraine. It is Putin.

lghh 5y ago
It is the will of _some_ of the Russian people. It has to be. It's people doing the invading. If no Russian wanted to invade Ukraine, there would be nobody in uniform invading Ukraine.
- dijit 5y ago
  Sure. Just like it’s the will of “some” of the UK to go to war with Iraq, despite over a million people protesting against that at the time. That people follow the government does not mean they agree. And anyway there’s been a steady stream of propaganda fed to the Russian population, it’s folly to say this isn’t Putins will being projected onto his people. The same way that the nazis got power with 30% approval and managed to use that power to go to war with the rest of Europe. I’m not saying it’s not dangerous, I’m saying it’s not all Russia. And IntelliJ are saying as such.
CyberRabbi 5y ago
> I say this as a person who is 100% against this invasion Thanks for clearing that up. There are commenters on HN who have a vested interest in Russia taking eastern Ukraine.

version_five 5y ago

Yes, I agree. I don't think this is such an inappropriate stance to have. It's up to the owner in the end, but personally I don't agree in mixing politics with business.

aaomidi 5y ago

Companies are literally political entities.

albertopv 5y ago

Companies make weapons, or tools to make weapons, even if not intended. An IDE could be used to develop a fighter plane control sw. Companies pay taxes that are used to also buy weapons that kill people. Everyone should be involved in politics, even companies.

munk-a 5y ago

I absolutely agree - now if only all of the companies in the US could stop lobbying for pro-business legislation we could have a fairer and more equitable world. I care a lot more about how twisted our legal system has become than companies declaring opposition to unjust wars.

lame-robot-hoax 5y ago

Companies are comprised of people and should be allowed to speak on politics if they so choose to.

dudus 5y ago

As sanctions are looming any company that is based on Russia, has offices in Russia or makes business with Russian companies are at risk of having these sanctions affect their bottom line. They simply don't have the luxury of staying out of it. Some damage control is needed

mung 5y ago

Should say... I dunno, Alphabet provide un solicited commentary on their take of... Australia's refugee detention centres? Not really. Should a Russian-based company make a statement on their country invading another as the world (of customers) looks on? Probably. Politics is everywhere, avoiding it can sometimes be an unintended statement too. Sometimes you have to state your position or others will state it for you.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

TulliusCicero 5y ago

Yes, and perhaps later they can claim to just be following orders.

pm90 5y ago

Then ban lobbying.