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Suggestions on how I can get enough complete protein in such a diet? I am open to reducing meat for health if this is a factor but eat about 150 grams complete

Suggestions on how I can get enough complete protein in such a diet? I am open to reducing meat for health if this is a factor but eat about 150 grams complete protein every day and this is hard to replace from vegetarian. The few vegetarian dishes I see with significant protein are often not nearly as good as yogurt, meat, eggs or just stuff with whey protein in it. I can't see much with comparable protein to calorie to chicken breast, spirulina is comparable but is disgusting taste and not complete. There is also that it is hard to eat 3000-3500 calories every day of clean food in a bulk with animal products, removing those will probably make it even harder.

chihuahua 5y ago
I'm a little confused, you write "vegetarian" but did you mean "vegan"? "The few vegetarian dishes ... are often not nearly as good as yogurt, meat, eggs, or [...] whey protein" Yogurt, eggs and whey protein are vegetarian (but not vegan). Vegetarian is extremely easy (I eat 95% vegetarian because it's cheaper and easier), vegan is very difficult and requires significant sacrifices. Or maybe I misunderstood your sentence in some way. I don't mean to be pedantic, but it seems to me that the discussion is going to be difficult if vegan and vegetarian are getting mixed up.
- collegeburner 5y ago
  Hmm I don't know that I have to be either strictly, I'm thinking about cutting down my intake mostly of meat but also things like eggs that can carry through higher concentrations. Plus if there is some good complete plant protein that tastes fine, I hope maybe it's cheaper (eating lots of protein is expensive LOL)
  - chihuahua 5y ago
    I really like canned black beans. They have a decent amount of protein and fiber, they taste good, they're pretty cheap, and you just have to heat them up. Lentils are also good, but they take a while to cook. I use the white rice setting on the rice cooker.
    - collegeburner 5y ago
      I eat a good bit of those but more for health than protein and because they're cheap, but not complete protein and about 1/2 protein per calorie of chicken breast.
    - loudtieblahblah 5y ago
      Few if any plant based proteins are complete proteins. theyre always missing some amino acids or another. Even this list of vegan complete proteins are mixtures of multiple foods https://www.peta.org/living/food/complete-proteins-vegan/ https://www.peta.org/living/food/complete-proteins-vegan/
loudtieblahblah 5y ago
There's 2 ways to look at protein. There's a life-span way and a health-span way. Do you want to live longer? or do you want to feel and potentially look better? When it comes to protein, these two things seem to be at odds with one another. High protein is correlated with shorter lifespans. - https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/protein-consumption-linked-longevity https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/protein... - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC-ej7HbPWg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC-ej7HbPWg You'll notice the first link shows higher lifespan when protein intake is increased after a certain age (65). it's assumed this is largely due to the number of deaths from injuries (falls) and complications from injuries that happen to the elderly and that muscle mass at this stage is vital. But protein tends to active mTor. You want that to not be activated and you want IGF-1 to be low. These are correlated with longer lifespan. - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6611156/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6611156/ - https://www.nia.nih.gov/news/understanding-mtor-pathway-and-lifespan-refined-new-study https://www.nia.nih.gov/news/understanding-mtor-pathway-and-... - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31316753/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31316753/ - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15501691/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15501691/ And it looks like studies in humans and animal models seem to reflect correlative data for "Blue Zone diets" (more or less). ( https://www.bluezones.com/2020/07/blue-zones-diet-food-secrets-of-the-worlds-longest-lived-people/# https://www.bluezones.com/2020/07/blue-zones-diet-food-secre... ). Most of the regions in the Blue Zones are high in veggies, low in meat, often with a bit of seafood, and virtually zero processed foods. How you define a little meat really varies when going by "blue zones". Some might say 4-6oz a day, some might say 1-2x a week. The low amounts of meat and obtaining incomplete proteins with more narrow amino acid profiles is beneficial for health in the long term, largely due to mTor activation being avoided or reduced. The body evolved (it seems) to an extent, to struggle for certain nutrients (but that doesn't mean do without them entirely, but just periods of not having everything at once, constantly). This seems very apparent with studies into proteins. When it comes to other vitamins and minerals (electrolytes, vitamins, etc..) we seems to need those fairly constantly/consistently. the ultimate way to not activate mTor or stimulate IGF-1, is to fast. Either do time-restricted eating where you eat in a 4-8 hour window every day, or periodically do multiple day fasts.. The timing of your eating, IMHO, is more important than how much meat or veggies you consume. If you ate one meal a day and had meat at that meal, even in large amounts, it'd be more benefitial than say... eating 3 meals a day and being fully vegan or vegetarian. How often you're eating seems to have a more negative effect on lifespan than, to some extent, what you're eating. I don't avoid meat. I rely on greek yogurt, eggs 1-2x a week, 4-5oz of meat (mostly fish, low-fat chicken breasts without skin, and beef 1x a week), a variety of nuts (i prefer macademia nuts b/c they're low in omega6, low in oxylates and high in monosaturated fats, most other nuts are high in Omega6s and/or oxylates). I probably eat at a midway point between what i should do for health and lifespan. If you're more concerned with health span than lifespan then you really want to get about 1G of protein per KG in body weight. If you're more concerned about lifespan, 0.5G per KG of body weight is more where you want to be. If you went full carnivore, you'd probably feel absolutely amazing. Eating a lot of meat spurs on testosterone, increases fertility and reproductive capability, and all sorts of great stuff, but the trade off seems to be for lifespan. You'll notice body builders often don't make it to 100 years old. But look at the Mediterranean, look at japan - fairly thin, active people - often with religious/community connections, who are eating mostly veggies, a little meat, and some seafood once in a while, they're the ones passing the 100 year mark more often. Doing stuff like fasting, or eating a, lets call it a plant-based diet as opposed to vegetarian, (or both), doesn't feel so great. You can't perform at the gym like you usually would, for example. The body is best, from a lifespan perspective and to a certain extent, a healthspan perspective, when it's exposed to hormetic stressors. These are little stressors that improve the over-all functioning of your body. Exercise is one. Sauna use is another. Cold exposure (showers, ice baths) is another. But fasting is too, spurring on autophagy (which is the strongest anti-cancer process we have, internally) and all other great processes like the down regulation of IGF-1. The body not quite having all the protein it needs, ALL THE TIME, is a beneficial stressor that works to increase lifespan as well. As far as I've read anyways. Eating many vegetables are also hormetic stressors. Various phytonutrients are built by plants as reactions to when they are stressed, these phytonutrients produced under those conditions are some of the best substances we can eat. Like sulphorafane (from broccoli, broccoli sprouts, kale, cabbage, brussel sprouts, etc.) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz4YVJ4aRfg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz4YVJ4aRfg - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PNGxNzogOY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PNGxNzogOY IMHO - i'd keep on with (grass fed/finished where applicable) meat, yogurt, nuts, a little whey from time to time, 4-5oz of meat a day, (free range or omega3+) eggs every once in a while. But at 40 years old and experiencing some health problems stemming from a mix of a lifetime of bad habits (drinking, smoking, sodas, fast food) and a bit of anxiety that clobbered me in adulthood.. i lean more towards longevity these days that i do in making sure i can lift at the gym and maximizing my athletic performance. i don't care about what i look like anymore. I don't care about satisfying my ego at the gym anymore either. I just want to be happy and live to see my grandkids be born and maybe go through some pivotal things in elementary school before kicking the bucket. I eat 2 meals a day 5 days a week i fast 2-3 days a month, at the beginning of the month. I eat "normally" for social purposes on the weekends. I don't calorie count. I've found that based on WHAT i'm eating, calories don't matter much. I did Keto for 6 months and even eating tons of meat and hitting 3kcals a day, i was still losing weight when my carbs were under 20g a day. But now I probably don't hit 2k cal a day and sometimes my weight fluctuates up 1-3 pounds or back down, here and there. And i exercise 5-6 days a week. i know i ramble (ADHD) but i used to pack on 3k a day or more, and drink protein shakes and hit the gym and make sure i was getting lots of protein. I've long abandoned that mentality. I stopped listening to fitness people and started listening to doctors and scientists.

chihuahua 5y ago

I'm a little confused, you write "vegetarian" but did you mean "vegan"? "The few vegetarian dishes ... are often not nearly as good as yogurt, meat, eggs, or [...] whey protein" Yogurt, eggs and whey protein are vegetarian (but not vegan). Vegetarian is extremely easy (I eat 95% vegetarian because it's cheaper and easier), vegan is very difficult and requires significant sacrifices. Or maybe I misunderstood your sentence in some way. I don't mean to be pedantic, but it seems to me that the discussion is going to be difficult if vegan and vegetarian are getting mixed up.

collegeburner 5y ago
Hmm I don't know that I have to be either strictly, I'm thinking about cutting down my intake mostly of meat but also things like eggs that can carry through higher concentrations. Plus if there is some good complete plant protein that tastes fine, I hope maybe it's cheaper (eating lots of protein is expensive LOL)
- chihuahua 5y ago
  I really like canned black beans. They have a decent amount of protein and fiber, they taste good, they're pretty cheap, and you just have to heat them up. Lentils are also good, but they take a while to cook. I use the white rice setting on the rice cooker.
  - collegeburner 5y ago
    I eat a good bit of those but more for health than protein and because they're cheap, but not complete protein and about 1/2 protein per calorie of chicken breast.
  - loudtieblahblah 5y ago
    Few if any plant based proteins are complete proteins. theyre always missing some amino acids or another. Even this list of vegan complete proteins are mixtures of multiple foods https://www.peta.org/living/food/complete-proteins-vegan/ https://www.peta.org/living/food/complete-proteins-vegan/

loudtieblahblah 5y ago

There's 2 ways to look at protein. There's a life-span way and a health-span way. Do you want to live longer? or do you want to feel and potentially look better? When it comes to protein, these two things seem to be at odds with one another. High protein is correlated with shorter lifespans. - https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/protein-consumption-linked-longevity https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/protein... - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC-ej7HbPWg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC-ej7HbPWg You'll notice the first link shows higher lifespan when protein intake is increased after a certain age (65). it's assumed this is largely due to the number of deaths from injuries (falls) and complications from injuries that happen to the elderly and that muscle mass at this stage is vital. But protein tends to active mTor. You want that to not be activated and you want IGF-1 to be low. These are correlated with longer lifespan. - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6611156/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6611156/ - https://www.nia.nih.gov/news/understanding-mtor-pathway-and-lifespan-refined-new-study https://www.nia.nih.gov/news/understanding-mtor-pathway-and-... - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31316753/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31316753/ - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15501691/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15501691/ And it looks like studies in humans and animal models seem to reflect correlative data for "Blue Zone diets" (more or less). ( https://www.bluezones.com/2020/07/blue-zones-diet-food-secrets-of-the-worlds-longest-lived-people/# https://www.bluezones.com/2020/07/blue-zones-diet-food-secre... ). Most of the regions in the Blue Zones are high in veggies, low in meat, often with a bit of seafood, and virtually zero processed foods. How you define a little meat really varies when going by "blue zones". Some might say 4-6oz a day, some might say 1-2x a week. The low amounts of meat and obtaining incomplete proteins with more narrow amino acid profiles is beneficial for health in the long term, largely due to mTor activation being avoided or reduced. The body evolved (it seems) to an extent, to struggle for certain nutrients (but that doesn't mean do without them entirely, but just periods of not having everything at once, constantly). This seems very apparent with studies into proteins. When it comes to other vitamins and minerals (electrolytes, vitamins, etc..) we seems to need those fairly constantly/consistently. the ultimate way to not activate mTor or stimulate IGF-1, is to fast. Either do time-restricted eating where you eat in a 4-8 hour window every day, or periodically do multiple day fasts.. The timing of your eating, IMHO, is more important than how much meat or veggies you consume. If you ate one meal a day and had meat at that meal, even in large amounts, it'd be more benefitial than say... eating 3 meals a day and being fully vegan or vegetarian. How often you're eating seems to have a more negative effect on lifespan than, to some extent, what you're eating. I don't avoid meat. I rely on greek yogurt, eggs 1-2x a week, 4-5oz of meat (mostly fish, low-fat chicken breasts without skin, and beef 1x a week), a variety of nuts (i prefer macademia nuts b/c they're low in omega6, low in oxylates and high in monosaturated fats, most other nuts are high in Omega6s and/or oxylates). I probably eat at a midway point between what i should do for health and lifespan. If you're more concerned with health span than lifespan then you really want to get about 1G of protein per KG in body weight. If you're more concerned about lifespan, 0.5G per KG of body weight is more where you want to be. If you went full carnivore, you'd probably feel absolutely amazing. Eating a lot of meat spurs on testosterone, increases fertility and reproductive capability, and all sorts of great stuff, but the trade off seems to be for lifespan. You'll notice body builders often don't make it to 100 years old. But look at the Mediterranean, look at japan - fairly thin, active people - often with religious/community connections, who are eating mostly veggies, a little meat, and some seafood once in a while, they're the ones passing the 100 year mark more often. Doing stuff like fasting, or eating a, lets call it a plant-based diet as opposed to vegetarian, (or both), doesn't feel so great. You can't perform at the gym like you usually would, for example. The body is best, from a lifespan perspective and to a certain extent, a healthspan perspective, when it's exposed to hormetic stressors. These are little stressors that improve the over-all functioning of your body. Exercise is one. Sauna use is another. Cold exposure (showers, ice baths) is another. But fasting is too, spurring on autophagy (which is the strongest anti-cancer process we have, internally) and all other great processes like the down regulation of IGF-1. The body not quite having all the protein it needs, ALL THE TIME, is a beneficial stressor that works to increase lifespan as well. As far as I've read anyways. Eating many vegetables are also hormetic stressors. Various phytonutrients are built by plants as reactions to when they are stressed, these phytonutrients produced under those conditions are some of the best substances we can eat. Like sulphorafane (from broccoli, broccoli sprouts, kale, cabbage, brussel sprouts, etc.) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz4YVJ4aRfg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz4YVJ4aRfg - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PNGxNzogOY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PNGxNzogOY IMHO - i'd keep on with (grass fed/finished where applicable) meat, yogurt, nuts, a little whey from time to time, 4-5oz of meat a day, (free range or omega3+) eggs every once in a while. But at 40 years old and experiencing some health problems stemming from a mix of a lifetime of bad habits (drinking, smoking, sodas, fast food) and a bit of anxiety that clobbered me in adulthood.. i lean more towards longevity these days that i do in making sure i can lift at the gym and maximizing my athletic performance. i don't care about what i look like anymore. I don't care about satisfying my ego at the gym anymore either. I just want to be happy and live to see my grandkids be born and maybe go through some pivotal things in elementary school before kicking the bucket. I eat 2 meals a day 5 days a week i fast 2-3 days a month, at the beginning of the month. I eat "normally" for social purposes on the weekends. I don't calorie count. I've found that based on WHAT i'm eating, calories don't matter much. I did Keto for 6 months and even eating tons of meat and hitting 3kcals a day, i was still losing weight when my carbs were under 20g a day. But now I probably don't hit 2k cal a day and sometimes my weight fluctuates up 1-3 pounds or back down, here and there. And i exercise 5-6 days a week. i know i ramble (ADHD) but i used to pack on 3k a day or more, and drink protein shakes and hit the gym and make sure i was getting lots of protein. I've long abandoned that mentality. I stopped listening to fitness people and started listening to doctors and scientists.