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Not to deminish that they're people but that's basically a weekend in Chicago... For a "full scale invasion" it's nothing and would indicate that there won't b

Not to deminish that they're people but that's basically a weekend in Chicago... For a "full scale invasion" it's nothing and would indicate that there won't be much resistance.

mikeyouse 5y ago
Gross.
jacquesm 5y ago
If you don't want to diminish it, why do you diminish it? When Germany invaded NL for the first little bit there were not many casualties, those came later.
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  Because the media and everyone make it sound like it's about to be trench warfare and then urban warfare for years and the original parent I responded to implied soldiers would be gunning down babushkas... It's bad but it's obviously modern warfare and there likely won't be massive casualties because the Ukrainians aren't marching to die since the west already abandoned them. We were told Russia would be rolling tanks through the mud and fighting in trenches... Lots of propaganda. And an hour ago I watched Biden say sanctions are as bad as missiles SMH... Anyhow, the west abandoned Ukraine, I really doubt too many Ukrainians are eager to die for nothing.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    > I really doubt too many Ukrainians are eager to die for nothing As in: you don't believe that Ukrainians will defend their country?
    - mikeyouse 5y ago
      Just the most absurd line of argument from OP -- there are tons of videos of dead Ukrainian soldiers, burned out tanks/APCs, videos of indiscriminate rocket attacks on civilian centers, jets firing on residential buildings, cruise missiles striking civilian airports, at least one video of a child on a bicycle being hit with a mortar. Because the confirmed number of military KIA in the first hours of the war is only "several dozen" it's "a weekend in Chicago". Just incredibly ghoulish.
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        Precisely. It is revolting some of the sentiments on HN regarding this make me sick. To believe that Ukrainians will just let their country be run over is naive, what bugs me is that they are left to hang in the wind rather than that they receive help, that's the one thing that Putin really fears right now judging by his performance earlier, clearly aimed at persuading the public in the West that he would rain nuclear destruction on any country that decides to interfere.
        toyg 5y ago
        Well, I'll be frank: between nuclear holocaust and Ukraine going back to 1989, I pick the latter. Sucks to be Ukrainian right now, I know, but this is the time to be smart: France was overrun in a month too, and looked pretty pacific under occupation for a pretty long time, but eventually...
        jacquesm 5y ago
        Ok, then what about Poland, Romania, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia? Good enough to supply troops to NATO, not good enough to be defended when it matters? They should go back to 1989 as well?
        toyg 5y ago
        You mean good enough to buy NATO-grade American weapons, surely. But anyway, obviously the allegiance matters - if anything because they already got troops and missiles deployed there, so the risk for Russian assets is too high - you can hit St. Petersburg from Tallinn with little more than a fishing boat. Besides, there is no reason for Putin to claim those, nor a real strategic value. Ukraine has value: the pipelines, the coast, the Dnieper, and the example for Belarusians not to get ideas once Lukashenko goes. That it would remain a Moscow satellite was basically the agreement post-1990, this makes it more explicit. Sucks for self-determination and all that, but again, avoiding nuclear holocaust is probably worth losing the occasional battle.
    - toyg 5y ago
      Some of their country, probably yes. All of it, including Donbass and the coast, probably not. After all, anybody who felt strongly about the Donbass was already there fighting. Ukrainians might well decide that they can live with a landlocked country, if the alternative is annihilation.
      - mikeyouse 5y ago
        Russians are literally driving on Kyiv as we speak. 3 million people live there and it's the seat of government. I'm not sure what to tell you if you think the Ukrainian military is going to abandon the fight.
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        I know a couple of Ukrainians, I can't say they share your sentiment, to put it mildly.
    - Mikeb85 5y ago
      They've had how many regimes in the last century? No, they won't die for this.
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        They are already dying for this. Really, you make no sense to me at all.
      - richardfey 5y ago
        Some people will certainly die in the line of duty, and some already have.
  - richardfey 5y ago
    There are russian tanks in Kharkhiv, according to BBC. Are you saying that is made up?
    - Mikeb85 5y ago
      And they came on the road.
  - richardfey 5y ago
    There are already reports of 6 dead in a bombing that hit a hospital, I hope by mistake.
jhgb 5y ago
And I imagine that many places would rather opt out of becoming another Chicago. "This is nothing, people elsewhere have it worse" can be applied to a majority of the world's population. It's a useless argument.

Not to deminish that they're people but that's basically a weekend in Chicago... For a "full scale invasion" it's nothing and would indicate that there won't be much resistance.

mikeyouse 5y ago

Gross.

jacquesm 5y ago

If you don't want to diminish it, why do you diminish it? When Germany invaded NL for the first little bit there were not many casualties, those came later.

Mikeb85 5y ago
Because the media and everyone make it sound like it's about to be trench warfare and then urban warfare for years and the original parent I responded to implied soldiers would be gunning down babushkas... It's bad but it's obviously modern warfare and there likely won't be massive casualties because the Ukrainians aren't marching to die since the west already abandoned them. We were told Russia would be rolling tanks through the mud and fighting in trenches... Lots of propaganda. And an hour ago I watched Biden say sanctions are as bad as missiles SMH... Anyhow, the west abandoned Ukraine, I really doubt too many Ukrainians are eager to die for nothing.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  > I really doubt too many Ukrainians are eager to die for nothing As in: you don't believe that Ukrainians will defend their country?
  - mikeyouse 5y ago
    Just the most absurd line of argument from OP -- there are tons of videos of dead Ukrainian soldiers, burned out tanks/APCs, videos of indiscriminate rocket attacks on civilian centers, jets firing on residential buildings, cruise missiles striking civilian airports, at least one video of a child on a bicycle being hit with a mortar. Because the confirmed number of military KIA in the first hours of the war is only "several dozen" it's "a weekend in Chicago". Just incredibly ghoulish.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      Precisely. It is revolting some of the sentiments on HN regarding this make me sick. To believe that Ukrainians will just let their country be run over is naive, what bugs me is that they are left to hang in the wind rather than that they receive help, that's the one thing that Putin really fears right now judging by his performance earlier, clearly aimed at persuading the public in the West that he would rain nuclear destruction on any country that decides to interfere.
      - toyg 5y ago
        Well, I'll be frank: between nuclear holocaust and Ukraine going back to 1989, I pick the latter. Sucks to be Ukrainian right now, I know, but this is the time to be smart: France was overrun in a month too, and looked pretty pacific under occupation for a pretty long time, but eventually...
        jacquesm 5y ago
        Ok, then what about Poland, Romania, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia? Good enough to supply troops to NATO, not good enough to be defended when it matters? They should go back to 1989 as well?
        toyg 5y ago
        You mean good enough to buy NATO-grade American weapons, surely. But anyway, obviously the allegiance matters - if anything because they already got troops and missiles deployed there, so the risk for Russian assets is too high - you can hit St. Petersburg from Tallinn with little more than a fishing boat. Besides, there is no reason for Putin to claim those, nor a real strategic value. Ukraine has value: the pipelines, the coast, the Dnieper, and the example for Belarusians not to get ideas once Lukashenko goes. That it would remain a Moscow satellite was basically the agreement post-1990, this makes it more explicit. Sucks for self-determination and all that, but again, avoiding nuclear holocaust is probably worth losing the occasional battle.
  - toyg 5y ago
    Some of their country, probably yes. All of it, including Donbass and the coast, probably not. After all, anybody who felt strongly about the Donbass was already there fighting. Ukrainians might well decide that they can live with a landlocked country, if the alternative is annihilation.
    - mikeyouse 5y ago
      Russians are literally driving on Kyiv as we speak. 3 million people live there and it's the seat of government. I'm not sure what to tell you if you think the Ukrainian military is going to abandon the fight.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      I know a couple of Ukrainians, I can't say they share your sentiment, to put it mildly.
  - Mikeb85 5y ago
    They've had how many regimes in the last century? No, they won't die for this.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      They are already dying for this. Really, you make no sense to me at all.
    - richardfey 5y ago
      Some people will certainly die in the line of duty, and some already have.
- richardfey 5y ago
  There are russian tanks in Kharkhiv, according to BBC. Are you saying that is made up?
  - Mikeb85 5y ago
    And they came on the road.
- richardfey 5y ago
  There are already reports of 6 dead in a bombing that hit a hospital, I hope by mistake.

jhgb 5y ago

And I imagine that many places would rather opt out of becoming another Chicago. "This is nothing, people elsewhere have it worse" can be applied to a majority of the world's population. It's a useless argument.