4 ms·

I think they seized it because they need the general area to move their troops. In that case they can't tolerate Ukrainian troops there, but somebody has to be

I think they seized it because they need the general area to move their troops. In that case they can't tolerate Ukrainian troops there, but somebody has to be in control and responsible for this site to ensure, among other things, no terrorists make off with radioactive material. I'm totally condemning the Russian actions, but in this particular case they may be acting somewhat responsibly. Unlike with the bombing of civilians or the whole damn war in the first place!

odiroot 5y ago
- smsm42 5y ago
  The station has been shut down since 2000. There's no power supply there.
  - Arrath 5y ago
    Could it still be an important part of the distribution network? Lines, substations, etc.
    - epolanski 5y ago
      It's simply the shortest and simplest path from Belarus to Kiev. It has strategic military value.
- garaetjjte 5y ago
  Chernobyl power plant isn't operational since 2000.
  - rob74 5y ago
    Which still means that it operated for 14 years after the accident. Must have been a very "special" workplace for the engineers involved...
- bjtitus 5y ago
  Is any part of Chernobyl still in operation? It seems like everything was shut down by 2000 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_Nuclear_Power_Plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_Nuclear_Power_Plant).
  - odiroot 5y ago
    I stand corrected then!
drekipus 5y ago
> Unlike with the bombing of civilians or the whole damn war in the first place! Has this happened? Ukrainian civilians bombed?
- matmatmatmat 5y ago
  Whether deliberately or not, yes.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  Some Ukrainian Hospitals have been struck by artillery. No one knows if it was on purpose or not, but either way that's pretty bad since the world is still suffering from the COVID19 pandemic.
  - anothernewdude 5y ago
    The Russian Hospital seeking missiles are famous since Syria.
- sofixa 5y ago
  Yep, multiple cities, including Kyiv, Mariupol, Odessa, Lviv were bombed, and there's videos out there of civilian buildings destroyed.
- toyg 5y ago
  Never believe anybody who says attacks are "surgical" or "limited to strategic objectives" - bombs and shrapnels don't look at documents. War is war, civilian casualties are always inevitable. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to keep their numbers down, of course - in fact, it means war should never be waged, because innocents will always be caught in it.
- herpderperator 5y ago
  Yes. A cyclist can be seen going about their life before a bomb lands in front of them. The proximity would have sent shrapnel directly into them. They did not survive. It is extremely sad and awful to watch unfold. Warning: the second video contains gore. https://twitter.com/realistqx1/status/1496757503195029508 https://twitter.com/realistqx1/status/1496757503195029508 and https://twitter.com/zyundex/status/1496735074720563203 https://twitter.com/zyundex/status/1496735074720563203
rad_gruchalski 5y ago
> but somebody has to be in control and responsible for this site to ensure, among other things, no terrorists make off with radioactive material Please… Russians will just use it for their propaganda as a support to the claim that Ukraine was working on nuclear weapons.
- bragr 5y ago
  That would be an awkward claim considering Ukraine _had_ nuclear weapons and gave them up to Russia in the 90s for guarantees about Ukraine's territorial integrity. Obviously that didn't work so well for Ukraine now
  - cypherpunks01 5y ago
    I believe they were destroyed, not given over to Russia?
    - Thorrez 5y ago
      Hmm, various websites disagree. I would guess some were given to Russia and some were destroyed with the uranium being kept for other purposes. Gave to Russia: > Ukraine handed all its nuclear weapons to Russia https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraines-nuclear-lesson-with-russia-written-guarantees-can-be-worth-little/ https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraines-nuclear-lesson-with... > Ukraine have acceded to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) as non-nuclear states and are now transferring Soviet missiles and warheads to Russia for dismantlement on a strict schedule. https://www.stimson.org/1995/politics-nuclear-renunciation-cases-belarus-kazakhstan-and-ukraine/ https://www.stimson.org/1995/politics-nuclear-renunciation-c... >The former Soviet Republics where nuclear weapons had been based, namely Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan, transferred those weapons to Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Non-Proliferation_of_Nuclear_Weapons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Non-Proliferatio... > effectively abandoning their nuclear arsenal to Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Securit... > In May 1996, Ukraine saw the last of its nuclear arms transported back to Russia. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/05/science/ukraine-nuclear-weapons.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/05/science/ukraine-nuclear-w... > Ukraine transferred its last 40 nuclear warheads to Russia > Most tactical nuclear weapons were transferred from Ukraine to Russia. https://www.rferl.org/a/the-destruction-of-ukraines-nuclear-arsenal/29699706.html https://www.rferl.org/a/the-destruction-of-ukraines-nuclear-... > All nuclear weapons were removed to Russia https://www.nti.org/countries/ukraine/ https://www.nti.org/countries/ukraine/ Destroyed: > Ukraine gave up a huge arsenal of nuclear weapons left over by the Soviet Union in the early 1990s, and used the fuel from its blended-down warheads to drive its nuclear power plants. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/23/us/politics/putin-ukraine-nuclear-weapons.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/23/us/politics/putin-ukraine... > In 1994 Ukraine agreed to destroy the weapons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine > Ukrainian workers cut an air-to-ground X-22 cruise missile into pieces https://www.rferl.org/a/the-destruction-of-ukraines-nuclear-arsenal/29699706.html https://www.rferl.org/a/the-destruction-of-ukraines-nuclear-... > they had to destroy all of their nuclear weapons. https://historyofyesterday.com/did-ukraine-actually-get-rid-of-all-its-nuclear-weapons-2cd43037ed8 https://historyofyesterday.com/did-ukraine-actually-get-rid-...
MertsA 5y ago
>no terrorists make off with radioactive material. The reactors that aren't infamous have already had all fuel removed. The one that was scattered all over the countryside has plenty of highly radioactive debris but you can't realistically pull out material for a dirty bomb. Terrorists would have better luck stealing cobalt 60 sources and spreading that through a city than trying to break into the new safe confinement, break into the sarcophagus, find a suitably large amount of highly radioactive material, somehow break it into pieces and truck it out of the area, etc. Terrorists aren't going to try to use the war as cover to sneak into Chernobyl regardless of Russian troop presence.

odiroot 5y ago

smsm42 5y ago
The station has been shut down since 2000. There's no power supply there.
- Arrath 5y ago
  Could it still be an important part of the distribution network? Lines, substations, etc.
  - epolanski 5y ago
    It's simply the shortest and simplest path from Belarus to Kiev. It has strategic military value.
garaetjjte 5y ago
Chernobyl power plant isn't operational since 2000.
- rob74 5y ago
  Which still means that it operated for 14 years after the accident. Must have been a very "special" workplace for the engineers involved...
bjtitus 5y ago
Is any part of Chernobyl still in operation? It seems like everything was shut down by 2000 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_Nuclear_Power_Plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_Nuclear_Power_Plant).
- odiroot 5y ago
  I stand corrected then!

drekipus 5y ago

> Unlike with the bombing of civilians or the whole damn war in the first place! Has this happened? Ukrainian civilians bombed?

matmatmatmat 5y ago
Whether deliberately or not, yes.
dragontamer 5y ago
Some Ukrainian Hospitals have been struck by artillery. No one knows if it was on purpose or not, but either way that's pretty bad since the world is still suffering from the COVID19 pandemic.
- anothernewdude 5y ago
  The Russian Hospital seeking missiles are famous since Syria.
sofixa 5y ago
Yep, multiple cities, including Kyiv, Mariupol, Odessa, Lviv were bombed, and there's videos out there of civilian buildings destroyed.
toyg 5y ago
Never believe anybody who says attacks are "surgical" or "limited to strategic objectives" - bombs and shrapnels don't look at documents. War is war, civilian casualties are always inevitable. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to keep their numbers down, of course - in fact, it means war should never be waged, because innocents will always be caught in it.
herpderperator 5y ago
Yes. A cyclist can be seen going about their life before a bomb lands in front of them. The proximity would have sent shrapnel directly into them. They did not survive. It is extremely sad and awful to watch unfold. Warning: the second video contains gore. https://twitter.com/realistqx1/status/1496757503195029508 https://twitter.com/realistqx1/status/1496757503195029508 and https://twitter.com/zyundex/status/1496735074720563203 https://twitter.com/zyundex/status/1496735074720563203

rad_gruchalski 5y ago

> but somebody has to be in control and responsible for this site to ensure, among other things, no terrorists make off with radioactive material Please… Russians will just use it for their propaganda as a support to the claim that Ukraine was working on nuclear weapons.

bragr 5y ago
That would be an awkward claim considering Ukraine _had_ nuclear weapons and gave them up to Russia in the 90s for guarantees about Ukraine's territorial integrity. Obviously that didn't work so well for Ukraine now
- cypherpunks01 5y ago
  I believe they were destroyed, not given over to Russia?
  - Thorrez 5y ago
    Hmm, various websites disagree. I would guess some were given to Russia and some were destroyed with the uranium being kept for other purposes. Gave to Russia: > Ukraine handed all its nuclear weapons to Russia https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraines-nuclear-lesson-with-russia-written-guarantees-can-be-worth-little/ https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraines-nuclear-lesson-with... > Ukraine have acceded to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) as non-nuclear states and are now transferring Soviet missiles and warheads to Russia for dismantlement on a strict schedule. https://www.stimson.org/1995/politics-nuclear-renunciation-cases-belarus-kazakhstan-and-ukraine/ https://www.stimson.org/1995/politics-nuclear-renunciation-c... >The former Soviet Republics where nuclear weapons had been based, namely Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan, transferred those weapons to Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Non-Proliferation_of_Nuclear_Weapons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Non-Proliferatio... > effectively abandoning their nuclear arsenal to Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Securit... > In May 1996, Ukraine saw the last of its nuclear arms transported back to Russia. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/05/science/ukraine-nuclear-weapons.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/05/science/ukraine-nuclear-w... > Ukraine transferred its last 40 nuclear warheads to Russia > Most tactical nuclear weapons were transferred from Ukraine to Russia. https://www.rferl.org/a/the-destruction-of-ukraines-nuclear-arsenal/29699706.html https://www.rferl.org/a/the-destruction-of-ukraines-nuclear-... > All nuclear weapons were removed to Russia https://www.nti.org/countries/ukraine/ https://www.nti.org/countries/ukraine/ Destroyed: > Ukraine gave up a huge arsenal of nuclear weapons left over by the Soviet Union in the early 1990s, and used the fuel from its blended-down warheads to drive its nuclear power plants. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/23/us/politics/putin-ukraine-nuclear-weapons.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/23/us/politics/putin-ukraine... > In 1994 Ukraine agreed to destroy the weapons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine > Ukrainian workers cut an air-to-ground X-22 cruise missile into pieces https://www.rferl.org/a/the-destruction-of-ukraines-nuclear-arsenal/29699706.html https://www.rferl.org/a/the-destruction-of-ukraines-nuclear-... > they had to destroy all of their nuclear weapons. https://historyofyesterday.com/did-ukraine-actually-get-rid-of-all-its-nuclear-weapons-2cd43037ed8 https://historyofyesterday.com/did-ukraine-actually-get-rid-...

MertsA 5y ago

>no terrorists make off with radioactive material. The reactors that aren't infamous have already had all fuel removed. The one that was scattered all over the countryside has plenty of highly radioactive debris but you can't realistically pull out material for a dirty bomb. Terrorists would have better luck stealing cobalt 60 sources and spreading that through a city than trying to break into the new safe confinement, break into the sarcophagus, find a suitably large amount of highly radioactive material, somehow break it into pieces and truck it out of the area, etc. Terrorists aren't going to try to use the war as cover to sneak into Chernobyl regardless of Russian troop presence.