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I think bad code in Jupyter is a symptom of both the tool and the user. Jupyter's flexibility for running cells out of order should never have been allowed. Cod

I think bad code in Jupyter is a symptom of both the tool and the user. Jupyter's flexibility for running cells out of order should never have been allowed. Code developed in this way will not be able to be transformed into a sequential program. One example of this is illustrated in your demo, how did the algorithm decide input_shape was an input but num_classes should remain a global? For me, it is obvious that the user's intent was that these are the variables that define the model. Personally, I wouldn't pay those prices to hide the data scientist's problems. However, if you developed extensions to prevent and encourage the user to overcome the tool's problems, I would buy that for myself. Also, you probably don't a demo that would fail to run in the second cell (in both unclean and clean code) .

oshams 5y ago
Thanks, founder here. I personally try not to run cells out of order. But I feel like almost anyone at some point will want to run cells out of order. The extraction is based partly on statistical edge detection. We are working on training transformers on actual diffs on GitHub that would be more natural.
- hervature 5y ago
  Keep up the work, I hope you get traction. This space is definitely in need of something. In particular, I will be keeping tabs to see your upcoming tests feature.
  - oshams 5y ago
    Thank you! I completely agree. I certainly don't think people should give up using Jupyter because of the frustration of keeping code quality high enough to port to other environments. Test feature is coming very soon. Please feel free to email me at omar@mutable.ai if you have more thoughts on this.
version_five 5y ago
> Personally, I wouldn't pay those prices to hide the data scientist's problems I have data scientists that work for me that have this problem. I'd rather that everyone I hire wrote the kind of code I want out of the box, but for lots of reasons it's not always possible. I have tried enforcing frameworks and ended up wasting more money trying to get people to change their workflow. A developer or data scientist (even an inexperienced one) is expensive enough that $30/mo is nothing if it makes them more productive. I'd guess this is what the company is banking on. (You'll see I made another comment where i say i don't like their pricing model, this is a matter of principle because I don't believe in just trying to wrap a program in SaaS in order to get more money without offering something beyond "you can run my code if you pay me". But the cost / benefit is still easy to justify)
- oshams 5y ago
  Exactly, developer time is extremely valuable! Plus, even on an individual level wouldn't you rather spend less time doing something a machine can make a reasonably good guess for you? My internal heuristic has been anything that can be easily guessed is something AI + PL techniques should do for you. I think developers in the future will have way more mental free space because of this trend towards accelerating developer tooling with AI.

oshams 5y ago

Thanks, founder here. I personally try not to run cells out of order. But I feel like almost anyone at some point will want to run cells out of order. The extraction is based partly on statistical edge detection. We are working on training transformers on actual diffs on GitHub that would be more natural.

hervature 5y ago
Keep up the work, I hope you get traction. This space is definitely in need of something. In particular, I will be keeping tabs to see your upcoming tests feature.
- oshams 5y ago
  Thank you! I completely agree. I certainly don't think people should give up using Jupyter because of the frustration of keeping code quality high enough to port to other environments. Test feature is coming very soon. Please feel free to email me at omar@mutable.ai if you have more thoughts on this.

version_five 5y ago

> Personally, I wouldn't pay those prices to hide the data scientist's problems I have data scientists that work for me that have this problem. I'd rather that everyone I hire wrote the kind of code I want out of the box, but for lots of reasons it's not always possible. I have tried enforcing frameworks and ended up wasting more money trying to get people to change their workflow. A developer or data scientist (even an inexperienced one) is expensive enough that $30/mo is nothing if it makes them more productive. I'd guess this is what the company is banking on. (You'll see I made another comment where i say i don't like their pricing model, this is a matter of principle because I don't believe in just trying to wrap a program in SaaS in order to get more money without offering something beyond "you can run my code if you pay me". But the cost / benefit is still easy to justify)

oshams 5y ago
Exactly, developer time is extremely valuable! Plus, even on an individual level wouldn't you rather spend less time doing something a machine can make a reasonably good guess for you? My internal heuristic has been anything that can be easily guessed is something AI + PL techniques should do for you. I think developers in the future will have way more mental free space because of this trend towards accelerating developer tooling with AI.