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Ukraine is not part of NATO. It’s not our job.
by symlinkk 5y ago
Ukraine is not part of NATO. It’s not our job.
- Eldt 5y ago"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
- jacquesm 5y agoWhat is so weird about these things: every time you read a history book you go like 'Oh, I recognize that', and then it plays out exactly the same. This whole wave of isolationism and so called neutrality was an important factor in why WWII went as far as it did, if the world had stood united against Hitler/Germany from day #1 he would have had not nearly gone as far.
- rayiner 5y agoNot everything is an analogy to WWII.
- rayiner 5y agoCountries tending to their own border security isn’t a matter of “good” and “evil.” Russia has far more basis for invading a rapidly arming country on its own border than the US did for invading Iraq or Afghanistan or Vietnam or Korea.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- jacquesm 5y agoRussia has no basis for this at all, hence all the pathetic excuses they've been showering the gullible with. And yes, it's evil, and no, it has nothing to do with their border security, that's a ridiculous suggestion, in the same vein, you would be ok with Russia annexing Poland, Lithuania, Finland or Estonia because they are armed and bordering Russia. As for the whataboutism, that wasn't the subject.
- Svettie 5y agoA perspective you don't share is ridiculous, so your explanation is "evil"? Maybe, it's more likely that you just don't understand it.
- jacquesm 5y agoSure, that must be it. Russia has a perfect right to encroach on whatever territories border their nation because they can't handle having sovereign nations at their borders. And of course after that they get to do it again. No, it's ridiculous.
- Svettie 5y agoAgain, something being ridiculous (to you) does not make it evil. And your straw man has nothing to do with my response
- pcwalton 5y agoI'm happy calling initiating a completely preventable conflict that nobody wanted that has resulted in the deaths of 137, 17 of whom are Ukrainian civilians, and 316 wounded evil. There's no meaningful moral difference between what Putin did and outright murdering 17 people. He knew innocent Ukrainians (and, for that matter, innocent Russians) would die and didn't care.
- rayiner 5y agoWell that’s not how anything works. E.g. how many babies might be saved by Russian economic development from having access to the sea through Ukraine? At this scale the moral calculus isn’t easy.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
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- astine 5y ago"Russia has far more basis for invading a rapidly arming country on its own border than the US did for invading Iraq or Afghanistan or Vietnam or Korea." Ukraine's attempts to prepare against invasion do not justify said invasion.
- baq 5y agoif tanks show up in estonia, latvia and lithuania, will you say 'but they're too small and not worth much?' you don't have to be the head of intelligence to understand importance of ukraine, even if it isn't technically our job to defend it. Germany, UK and Italy have scored an own goal, as has US policy of russian reset. zero upside, heavy downside, bad trade.
- jacquesm 5y agoUnfortunately, I'm afraid that that will be exactly the response. If that happens NATO is done for, but the fact that today Germany is one of the two countries that stop stronger sanctions against Russia is a strong sign that Putin will get away with this and more if we let him.
- baq 5y agoNothing I disagree with, Germany's reaction is pathetic. I'm also very concerned with Italy, didn't expect that. I hope they'll sort this out. Only thing left.
- betwixthewires 5y agoI don't think NATO survives another decade with the way incentives have realigned for the state members over the last couple of decades.