6 ms·

Business are still run by people. Nobody was forced to see someone else doing something shitty and then say "well I just need to be a bigger asshole than that g

Business are still run by people. Nobody was forced to see someone else doing something shitty and then say "well I just need to be a bigger asshole than that guy! Must be okay 'cause it's not illegal" People have far too simplistic models of how things work, this is the consequence of a lack of understanding and shortsightedness

lotsofpulp 5y ago
Businesses also need to have customers. No clothes maker was forced to manufacture in poor countries, but the alternative was to simply stop existing since insufficient customers are willing to pay the price premium for purely American made clothes. Hence the only solution would have been legislation forcing domestic manufacturing.
- netizen-936824 5y ago
  That's assuming that our current model is the only/best way of doing things, which is a bit shortsighted
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    You will have to elaborate on what life looks like without businesses selling to customers, and otherwise going out of business if they do not sell to customers. At least it does not seem to involve any conventional use of the word business.
    - netizen-936824 5y ago
      Exactly, and that might be a good thing. I don't have the answer to that question but it sure seems to me like our current system ruins lives and the environment to enrich the few who are willing to step on everyone else. Doesn't seem ideal to put it lightly
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        I do not see how you can judge others for being “bigger assholes” if you do not have an answer for what better choices they should have made. > Business are still run by people. Nobody was forced to see someone else doing something shitty and then say "well I just need to be a bigger asshole than that guy! Must be okay 'cause it's not illegal"
        netizen-936824 5y ago
        Paying people more than the minimum wage and not outsourcing just to save money (which some argue is just another form of imperialism) I think that would be a good start
        lotsofpulp 5y ago
        And then what? Go out of business because people prefer to shop at H&M and Old Navy due to their lower prices? The blame here lies solely on society and the politicians it elects. There is no other solution where individual business owners can be expected to take on societal problems.
        netizen-936824 5y ago
        Those businesses are also run by people, that was my point. But yes, you're right in that consumers also are an important part of the system.
- eru 5y ago
  You say it like it's a bad thing that textiles are manufactured in poor countries? As an example: Bangladesh has been on a multi-decade long streak of excellent economic growth. Mostly thanks to the textile industry. Regular people are better off. > In last decade, poverty dropped by around one third with significant improvement in human development index, literacy, life expectancy and per capita food consumption. With economy growing close to 6% per year, more than 15 million people have moved out of poverty since 1992.[64] From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Bangladesh#Modern_Bangladesh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Bangladesh#Modern_B...
  - netizen-936824 5y ago
    You seem to be making the assumption that their working conditions are better than what they were doing before. When considering working hours along with stress and working environment, I'd say probably not Some argue that industrialization under these conditions is not good for the countries and people being exploited for their labor
    - eru 5y ago
      Well, you can check on the working conditions. There's lots of stuff online. Life is better in Bangladesh now than it used to be. By a lot.
      - netizen-936824 5y ago
        Only if you judge things from your own biased perspective
        eru 5y ago
        It's not just me. See eg https://borgenproject.org/top-10-facts-about-living-conditions-in-bangladesh/ https://borgenproject.org/top-10-facts-about-living-conditio...
        5y ago
mym1990 5y ago
Per Einstein: 'A model should be as simple as it can be but no simpler'. I think people tend to overcomplicate things than oversimplify. A true understanding of something can be hinted by being able to explain it in a simple way.
- netizen-936824 5y ago
  I view the same quote from the opposite perspective. Our current model is far too simple, Einstein would have said we're missing a whole bunch of nuance and variables.

lotsofpulp 5y ago

Businesses also need to have customers. No clothes maker was forced to manufacture in poor countries, but the alternative was to simply stop existing since insufficient customers are willing to pay the price premium for purely American made clothes. Hence the only solution would have been legislation forcing domestic manufacturing.

netizen-936824 5y ago
That's assuming that our current model is the only/best way of doing things, which is a bit shortsighted
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  You will have to elaborate on what life looks like without businesses selling to customers, and otherwise going out of business if they do not sell to customers. At least it does not seem to involve any conventional use of the word business.
  - netizen-936824 5y ago
    Exactly, and that might be a good thing. I don't have the answer to that question but it sure seems to me like our current system ruins lives and the environment to enrich the few who are willing to step on everyone else. Doesn't seem ideal to put it lightly
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      I do not see how you can judge others for being “bigger assholes” if you do not have an answer for what better choices they should have made. > Business are still run by people. Nobody was forced to see someone else doing something shitty and then say "well I just need to be a bigger asshole than that guy! Must be okay 'cause it's not illegal"
      - netizen-936824 5y ago
        Paying people more than the minimum wage and not outsourcing just to save money (which some argue is just another form of imperialism) I think that would be a good start
        lotsofpulp 5y ago
        And then what? Go out of business because people prefer to shop at H&M and Old Navy due to their lower prices? The blame here lies solely on society and the politicians it elects. There is no other solution where individual business owners can be expected to take on societal problems.
        netizen-936824 5y ago
        Those businesses are also run by people, that was my point. But yes, you're right in that consumers also are an important part of the system.
eru 5y ago
You say it like it's a bad thing that textiles are manufactured in poor countries? As an example: Bangladesh has been on a multi-decade long streak of excellent economic growth. Mostly thanks to the textile industry. Regular people are better off. > In last decade, poverty dropped by around one third with significant improvement in human development index, literacy, life expectancy and per capita food consumption. With economy growing close to 6% per year, more than 15 million people have moved out of poverty since 1992.[64] From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Bangladesh#Modern_Bangladesh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Bangladesh#Modern_B...
- netizen-936824 5y ago
  You seem to be making the assumption that their working conditions are better than what they were doing before. When considering working hours along with stress and working environment, I'd say probably not Some argue that industrialization under these conditions is not good for the countries and people being exploited for their labor
  - eru 5y ago
    Well, you can check on the working conditions. There's lots of stuff online. Life is better in Bangladesh now than it used to be. By a lot.
    - netizen-936824 5y ago
      Only if you judge things from your own biased perspective
      - eru 5y ago
        It's not just me. See eg https://borgenproject.org/top-10-facts-about-living-conditions-in-bangladesh/ https://borgenproject.org/top-10-facts-about-living-conditio...
        5y ago

mym1990 5y ago

Per Einstein: 'A model should be as simple as it can be but no simpler'. I think people tend to overcomplicate things than oversimplify. A true understanding of something can be hinted by being able to explain it in a simple way.

netizen-936824 5y ago
I view the same quote from the opposite perspective. Our current model is far too simple, Einstein would have said we're missing a whole bunch of nuance and variables.