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There have been sanctions on Russia since 2016, and they got harder in 2017. The marginal value of additional sanctions is now greatly reduced. In retrospect,

There have been sanctions on Russia since 2016, and they got harder in 2017. The marginal value of additional sanctions is now greatly reduced. In retrospect, imposing sanctions in 2016 and 2017 was a bad idea.

bduerst 5y ago
>In retrospect, imposing sanctions in 2016 and 2017 was a bad idea. Why? Russia's response to the global Magnitsky Legislation shows that hitting the power structure in their oligarchs' assets works.
- cryptonector 5y ago
  And what did that do to stop their invading Ukraine? Nothing. Nothing at all. That means those sanctions didn't work no matter how much they looked like they were working.
  - bduerst 5y ago
    The Magnitsky legislation was a global sanctions response to human rights violations in Russia[1], not the Russian occupation of Crimea. The point is that they are a prime example of how economic sanctions are effective, especially against Russia. If anything, there should have been the threat of more sanctions for invading, and now with countries like Germany pulling out of energy deals and other action, we have only to see how it plays out. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnitsky_legislation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnitsky_legislation
    - cryptonector 5y ago
      How on Earth can you say with a straight face that they are effective given what's happened now?! I mean really, that's just gaslighting now.
      - bduerst 5y ago
        Then help me understand how my comment is gaslighting? Do you mean wikipedia is wrong? Or maybe you can finally answer why sanctions made things worse?
        cryptonector 5y ago
        Sanctions did not work. They did not prevent bad behavior from Putin's part. There is a full-on war going on because sanctions did not work. They. did. not. work. Who cares what some wikipedia page says! -- use your eyes, see the war, draw conclusions. The conclusion is inescapable: sanctions no worky. Sanctions no worky + claims that they do == gaslighting.
        dragonwriter 5y ago
        > There is a full-on war going on because sanctions did not work. The sanctions largely weren't imposed until after the war started. So, it was mostly potential sanctions that didn't work
        cryptonector 5y ago
        What are you talking about? Sanctions were imposed in 2014, then more in 2016, then more in 2017. The ratchet has gone one way. The war we're seeing now started this week. Stop lying.
humanwhosits 5y ago
Can always impose more isolation, this isn't anything near a full economic blockade yet
- cryptonector 5y ago
  In fact, we don't seem to be willing to impose more isolation. We've imposed as much as we could without getting hurt ourselves too much. Now all options are painful, so also not likely. Also, every additional turn of the screws increases the risk of wider war. So, yeah, I think it was a mistake to impose such severe sanctions for so long over so little, especially with the court filings from special prosecutor Durham.

bduerst 5y ago

>In retrospect, imposing sanctions in 2016 and 2017 was a bad idea. Why? Russia's response to the global Magnitsky Legislation shows that hitting the power structure in their oligarchs' assets works.

cryptonector 5y ago
And what did that do to stop their invading Ukraine? Nothing. Nothing at all. That means those sanctions didn't work no matter how much they looked like they were working.
- bduerst 5y ago
  The Magnitsky legislation was a global sanctions response to human rights violations in Russia[1], not the Russian occupation of Crimea. The point is that they are a prime example of how economic sanctions are effective, especially against Russia. If anything, there should have been the threat of more sanctions for invading, and now with countries like Germany pulling out of energy deals and other action, we have only to see how it plays out. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnitsky_legislation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnitsky_legislation
  - cryptonector 5y ago
    How on Earth can you say with a straight face that they are effective given what's happened now?! I mean really, that's just gaslighting now.
    - bduerst 5y ago
      Then help me understand how my comment is gaslighting? Do you mean wikipedia is wrong? Or maybe you can finally answer why sanctions made things worse?
      - cryptonector 5y ago
        Sanctions did not work. They did not prevent bad behavior from Putin's part. There is a full-on war going on because sanctions did not work. They. did. not. work. Who cares what some wikipedia page says! -- use your eyes, see the war, draw conclusions. The conclusion is inescapable: sanctions no worky. Sanctions no worky + claims that they do == gaslighting.
        dragonwriter 5y ago
        > There is a full-on war going on because sanctions did not work. The sanctions largely weren't imposed until after the war started. So, it was mostly potential sanctions that didn't work
        cryptonector 5y ago
        What are you talking about? Sanctions were imposed in 2014, then more in 2016, then more in 2017. The ratchet has gone one way. The war we're seeing now started this week. Stop lying.

humanwhosits 5y ago

Can always impose more isolation, this isn't anything near a full economic blockade yet

cryptonector 5y ago
In fact, we don't seem to be willing to impose more isolation. We've imposed as much as we could without getting hurt ourselves too much. Now all options are painful, so also not likely. Also, every additional turn of the screws increases the risk of wider war. So, yeah, I think it was a mistake to impose such severe sanctions for so long over so little, especially with the court filings from special prosecutor Durham.