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It's possible since each country has their own history books. What countries did north korea, cuba, etc invade in your history books. Now compare that with the

by qiskit 5y ago

It's possible since each country has their own history books. What countries did north korea, cuba, etc invade in your history books. Now compare that with the list of countries britain, australia, france, canada, US, etc invaded. List the countries currently occupied by "autocracies". Now list the countries we occupy. List the nations genocided by democracies. It's rather shocking. So on and so forth. Not saying autocracies are good. Just that the idea that democracies are necessarily good is simply not true. Democracies have committed the worst crimes against humanity. It wasn't an autocracy that did hiroshima or nagasaki. But we each have our own history books I guess.

JoeAltmaier 5y ago
Democracy comes in three parts. It's possible to have elections, yet still not be a democracy. I suspect that has something to do with the confusion.
- oblio 5y ago
  The linked article even mentions "electoral autocracies", precisely for your description.
swagasaurus-rex 5y ago
Why don't you list them since you're the one making a claim. Hiroshima and Nagasaki is a limp argument. Emperor Hirohito controlled Japan when they committed an absolutely disgusting amount of war crimes. It had to end.
- bllguo 5y ago
  > One thing to note: a huge threat to democracy is war. > Frequently autocracies invade democracies These are not claims? Evidence was provided for one side of this argument already, and it's not yours.
  - swagasaurus-rex 5y ago
    I don't understand what you are saying
oblio 5y ago
You argument is that the worst atrocities were committed by the Allies, in a war against Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan???
- qiskit 5y ago
  No. My argument is that being a democracy doesn't make a nation good. Democracies can be just as barbaric, evil and genocidal as autocracies. I provided a simple example - hiroshima and nagasaki. I think murdering hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children in seconds qualifies as evil. Don't you? If you think that only that democratically elected nazis ( people always forget that a democracy gave us nazi germany and that hitler actually won his election to gain power ) were evil in ww2, then you are missing at least half the story. Also, if you think only autocracies commit genocide, then you might want to explore the history of the genocide against the native americans, aborigines, africans etc by democracies.
  - oblio 5y ago
    Like my other reply to your comment, this is <<not>> about absolutes. Democracies are generally more peaceful and produce lower casualties than autocracies. There's a reason people like them more when they can vote with their feet. > I think murdering hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children in seconds qualifies as evil. Don't you? I do, but do you know why they did it? Honest question, why did the UK nuke Japan?
    - qiskit 5y ago
      > Like my other reply to your comment, this is <<not>> about absolutes. Agreed. But your replies to me seem to indicate absolutes. > Democracies are generally more peaceful and produce lower casualties than autocracies. Not sure what you mean by "generally" or "peace". Internally or externally? Because I'm betting autocratic countries are much more peaceful internally. If you mean externally, I've already shown you that democracies have shown themselves to be more violent/invasive. Just take a look at the US. In our short time, we've "grown" from 13 states to 50 states + many territories. And in the last 100 years, we've invaded more countries than any autocracy. We currently occupy more countries than any autocracy. Two democracies ( US and Russia ) have invaded Ukraine in the last 10 years. > There's a reason people like them more when they can vote with their feet. Is that why everyone is fleeing to india, the largest democracy in the world? Nobody comes to the US, Canada, Australia, etc for democracy. People come here for money/wealth. The countries with the highest proportion of immigrants in the world is saudi arabia, UAE, qatar, etc. None of them are "liberal democracies". > I do, but do you know why they did it? Honest question, why did the UK nuke Japan? Of course you do. And I do. But instead of stating the truth, you'll say because japan refused to surrender/etc. But that makes it even a more heinous war crime in my mind. The US was a racist nation in the 1940s. We did hiroshima/nagasaki for the same reason we sent jewish refugees back to europe in the 1940s, racial hatred. Your assertions are what we were all raised with. Most just blindly believe it. But if you were correct, then everyone would be immigrating to india for democracy and not saudi arabia, qatar, etc. North korea would be the most violent nation invading everyone. Instead it's the US, britain, france, etc.

by qiskit 5y ago

JoeAltmaier 5y ago

Democracy comes in three parts. It's possible to have elections, yet still not be a democracy. I suspect that has something to do with the confusion.

oblio 5y ago
The linked article even mentions "electoral autocracies", precisely for your description.

swagasaurus-rex 5y ago

Why don't you list them since you're the one making a claim. Hiroshima and Nagasaki is a limp argument. Emperor Hirohito controlled Japan when they committed an absolutely disgusting amount of war crimes. It had to end.

bllguo 5y ago
> One thing to note: a huge threat to democracy is war. > Frequently autocracies invade democracies These are not claims? Evidence was provided for one side of this argument already, and it's not yours.
- swagasaurus-rex 5y ago
  I don't understand what you are saying

oblio 5y ago

You argument is that the worst atrocities were committed by the Allies, in a war against Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan???

qiskit 5y ago
No. My argument is that being a democracy doesn't make a nation good. Democracies can be just as barbaric, evil and genocidal as autocracies. I provided a simple example - hiroshima and nagasaki. I think murdering hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children in seconds qualifies as evil. Don't you? If you think that only that democratically elected nazis ( people always forget that a democracy gave us nazi germany and that hitler actually won his election to gain power ) were evil in ww2, then you are missing at least half the story. Also, if you think only autocracies commit genocide, then you might want to explore the history of the genocide against the native americans, aborigines, africans etc by democracies.
- oblio 5y ago
  Like my other reply to your comment, this is <<not>> about absolutes. Democracies are generally more peaceful and produce lower casualties than autocracies. There's a reason people like them more when they can vote with their feet. > I think murdering hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children in seconds qualifies as evil. Don't you? I do, but do you know why they did it? Honest question, why did the UK nuke Japan?
  - qiskit 5y ago
    > Like my other reply to your comment, this is <<not>> about absolutes. Agreed. But your replies to me seem to indicate absolutes. > Democracies are generally more peaceful and produce lower casualties than autocracies. Not sure what you mean by "generally" or "peace". Internally or externally? Because I'm betting autocratic countries are much more peaceful internally. If you mean externally, I've already shown you that democracies have shown themselves to be more violent/invasive. Just take a look at the US. In our short time, we've "grown" from 13 states to 50 states + many territories. And in the last 100 years, we've invaded more countries than any autocracy. We currently occupy more countries than any autocracy. Two democracies ( US and Russia ) have invaded Ukraine in the last 10 years. > There's a reason people like them more when they can vote with their feet. Is that why everyone is fleeing to india, the largest democracy in the world? Nobody comes to the US, Canada, Australia, etc for democracy. People come here for money/wealth. The countries with the highest proportion of immigrants in the world is saudi arabia, UAE, qatar, etc. None of them are "liberal democracies". > I do, but do you know why they did it? Honest question, why did the UK nuke Japan? Of course you do. And I do. But instead of stating the truth, you'll say because japan refused to surrender/etc. But that makes it even a more heinous war crime in my mind. The US was a racist nation in the 1940s. We did hiroshima/nagasaki for the same reason we sent jewish refugees back to europe in the 1940s, racial hatred. Your assertions are what we were all raised with. Most just blindly believe it. But if you were correct, then everyone would be immigrating to india for democracy and not saudi arabia, qatar, etc. North korea would be the most violent nation invading everyone. Instead it's the US, britain, france, etc.