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When data was reviewed, the effect in suicides among school age children was that it was significantly lower despite anti-lockdown spokespeople claiming it was

by dv_dt 5y ago

When data was reviewed, the effect in suicides among school age children was that it was significantly lower despite anti-lockdown spokespeople claiming it was higher. The shocking thing was that thisj was not even close in the data.

DocTomoe 5y ago
Political leaders wanted kids back in school so parents would be able to go back to work. At the same time, the media starts talking about how bad homeschooling and lockdowns are for kids mental health and suicide rates. Consent is always manufactured.
- geoduck14 5y ago
  >Political leaders wanted I feel the need to intervene here. The only thing political leaders want... is to get reelected. That is there job. To get reelected. Sure, in certain cases, a politician has kids and wants their kids back in school. But in this example the line should go: Political leaders had constituents that wanted kids back in school, so the leaders worked to make that happen.
  - DocTomoe 5y ago
    I used to believe the same things, that politicians followed the general will of their potential voters. I don't anymore, and reading some Chomsky made me understand how the system works. "Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media" is suggested reading, with the caveat that it opens the readers eyes to a harrowing reality and that what has been seen cannot be unseen.
    - tehjoker 5y ago
      Agreed, once you read that book (or watch the documentary [0]) it sets you down a new path of understanding. However, you will feel alternatively annoyed or horrified every day of the rest of your life. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuwmWnphqII https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuwmWnphqII
      - rhizome 5y ago
        It's good, but there has to be a better introduction than a 3hr documentary.
  - tedivm 5y ago
    That's an ideal world, but we don't live in an ideal world. Politicians do things not just to get reelected, but also to build their own wealth and power. To say that they only care about being reelected is a gross and inaccurate simplification.
  - croes 5y ago
    Political leaders want money and power that's why they want to be reelected.
- Thlom 5y ago
  When kids can’t socialize normally with their peers that is negative for them, even if kids themselves might be happy with “homeschooling” and socializing with their friends in Minecraft. We have been spared most lockdown measures, but had a couple of weeks with closed schools and day care. It was fine, but my kids were absolutely better of once schools and day care opened again.
  - ipaddr 5y ago
    I'm not following why if kids are happy homeschooling and socializing on popular video games is a negative? If your kids experienced only a month of lockdowns returning to normal would make them absolutely better. What if you were locked down for the entire year or two? After your kids get use to it they might respond differently.
    - logifail 5y ago
      > I'm not following why if kids are happy homeschooling and socializing on popular video games is a negative? Many kids, including our three, would be perfectly happy if they didn't have to do any schoolwork ever again. During the worst lockdown period here our middle child got 45 mins "online" with his teacher each day, and apart from that, he was on his own. Two working parents, with two (allegedly) full-time jobs. As the saying goes, "do the math"... Far too much TV was watched. Far too much youtube too. Far too much Minecraft was played. For the kids this was Just Fine(!) For us parents, not so much.
  - brimble 5y ago
    By the time kids are old enough that suicide starts to become a serious risk (6th grade and up, mostly) I'd need to see some serious data to convince me that socializing at school isn't net-harmful. In fact I'm surprised rates might have dropped, because kids were still able to socialize over the Internet. But, possibly, that gave them more ability to avoid the worst of it, and that was enough to make a difference. It's really, really hard for kids to avoid a handful of super-toxic students in their class, when in person. Your options are much more limited than an adult's are under similar circumstances.
shadowgovt 5y ago
Do you have a source regarding the suicide rate you can share? Everything I'm finding suggests they went up (the CDC "morbidity and mortality weekly report" indicated a 22% spike in 2020 relative to 2019).
- dv_dt 5y ago
  I would follow Dr Tyler Black, https://twitter.com/tylerblack32 https://twitter.com/tylerblack32 for data on that. He reviews data (with source links) from multiple sources and provides interpretations, and imho a pretty good job of breaking down nuances in the data, how it is grouped and summarized vs the ground conditions. The CDC data was reviewed by him on this thread. This is perhaps the simplest summary: https://twitter.com/tylerblack32/status/1470785676316663820?s=20&t=L2mfKmBnf82sj0rp6JWbIA https://twitter.com/tylerblack32/status/1470785676316663820?... Edit: There is actually an interesting presentation of data on this and other school mental health impacts on a even more macro basis in the Urgency of Equity website data packet which tries to provide a scientifically backed set of recommendations for schools going forward on Covid. It is biased to taking more specific actions than the anti-vax/anti-mask crowd, and even the current Covid policies of many governments. http://urgencyofequity.org http://urgencyofequity.org
  - Spellman 5y ago
    Notably from the graphic, not having school early in lockdown was great! Lower suicides. Once Hybrid/Remote started, suicides worse, implying worse than baseline. But slightly within error bars for most. So order of good > bad: No School > In-Person school > Hybrid
    - dv_dt 5y ago
      And even outside of the specific school scheme, looking at overall rates of child suicide in the US and Canada, the rates aren't out of variance from historical trends vs during covid years. (see pg 25 for the graphs on the Urgency of Equity packet).
    - rhizome 5y ago
manigandham 5y ago
What data and what review?

by dv_dt 5y ago

DocTomoe 5y ago

Political leaders wanted kids back in school so parents would be able to go back to work. At the same time, the media starts talking about how bad homeschooling and lockdowns are for kids mental health and suicide rates. Consent is always manufactured.

geoduck14 5y ago
>Political leaders wanted I feel the need to intervene here. The only thing political leaders want... is to get reelected. That is there job. To get reelected. Sure, in certain cases, a politician has kids and wants their kids back in school. But in this example the line should go: Political leaders had constituents that wanted kids back in school, so the leaders worked to make that happen.
- DocTomoe 5y ago
  I used to believe the same things, that politicians followed the general will of their potential voters. I don't anymore, and reading some Chomsky made me understand how the system works. "Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media" is suggested reading, with the caveat that it opens the readers eyes to a harrowing reality and that what has been seen cannot be unseen.
  - tehjoker 5y ago
    Agreed, once you read that book (or watch the documentary [0]) it sets you down a new path of understanding. However, you will feel alternatively annoyed or horrified every day of the rest of your life. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuwmWnphqII https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuwmWnphqII
    - rhizome 5y ago
      It's good, but there has to be a better introduction than a 3hr documentary.
- tedivm 5y ago
  That's an ideal world, but we don't live in an ideal world. Politicians do things not just to get reelected, but also to build their own wealth and power. To say that they only care about being reelected is a gross and inaccurate simplification.
- croes 5y ago
  Political leaders want money and power that's why they want to be reelected.
Thlom 5y ago
When kids can’t socialize normally with their peers that is negative for them, even if kids themselves might be happy with “homeschooling” and socializing with their friends in Minecraft. We have been spared most lockdown measures, but had a couple of weeks with closed schools and day care. It was fine, but my kids were absolutely better of once schools and day care opened again.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  I'm not following why if kids are happy homeschooling and socializing on popular video games is a negative? If your kids experienced only a month of lockdowns returning to normal would make them absolutely better. What if you were locked down for the entire year or two? After your kids get use to it they might respond differently.
  - logifail 5y ago
    > I'm not following why if kids are happy homeschooling and socializing on popular video games is a negative? Many kids, including our three, would be perfectly happy if they didn't have to do any schoolwork ever again. During the worst lockdown period here our middle child got 45 mins "online" with his teacher each day, and apart from that, he was on his own. Two working parents, with two (allegedly) full-time jobs. As the saying goes, "do the math"... Far too much TV was watched. Far too much youtube too. Far too much Minecraft was played. For the kids this was Just Fine(!) For us parents, not so much.
- brimble 5y ago
  By the time kids are old enough that suicide starts to become a serious risk (6th grade and up, mostly) I'd need to see some serious data to convince me that socializing at school isn't net-harmful. In fact I'm surprised rates might have dropped, because kids were still able to socialize over the Internet. But, possibly, that gave them more ability to avoid the worst of it, and that was enough to make a difference. It's really, really hard for kids to avoid a handful of super-toxic students in their class, when in person. Your options are much more limited than an adult's are under similar circumstances.

shadowgovt 5y ago

Do you have a source regarding the suicide rate you can share? Everything I'm finding suggests they went up (the CDC "morbidity and mortality weekly report" indicated a 22% spike in 2020 relative to 2019).

dv_dt 5y ago
I would follow Dr Tyler Black, https://twitter.com/tylerblack32 https://twitter.com/tylerblack32 for data on that. He reviews data (with source links) from multiple sources and provides interpretations, and imho a pretty good job of breaking down nuances in the data, how it is grouped and summarized vs the ground conditions. The CDC data was reviewed by him on this thread. This is perhaps the simplest summary: https://twitter.com/tylerblack32/status/1470785676316663820?s=20&t=L2mfKmBnf82sj0rp6JWbIA https://twitter.com/tylerblack32/status/1470785676316663820?... Edit: There is actually an interesting presentation of data on this and other school mental health impacts on a even more macro basis in the Urgency of Equity website data packet which tries to provide a scientifically backed set of recommendations for schools going forward on Covid. It is biased to taking more specific actions than the anti-vax/anti-mask crowd, and even the current Covid policies of many governments. http://urgencyofequity.org http://urgencyofequity.org
- Spellman 5y ago
  Notably from the graphic, not having school early in lockdown was great! Lower suicides. Once Hybrid/Remote started, suicides worse, implying worse than baseline. But slightly within error bars for most. So order of good > bad: No School > In-Person school > Hybrid
  - dv_dt 5y ago
    And even outside of the specific school scheme, looking at overall rates of child suicide in the US and Canada, the rates aren't out of variance from historical trends vs during covid years. (see pg 25 for the graphs on the Urgency of Equity packet).
  - rhizome 5y ago

manigandham 5y ago

What data and what review?