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Another Russian here. I don't agree and don't support this action. We anticipate long years if not decades of isolation, even more stagnating economy, even more

by mleg 5y ago

Another Russian here. I don't agree and don't support this action. We anticipate long years if not decades of isolation, even more stagnating economy, even more authoritarian government. By all means it's a terrible thing. For both Russians and Ucrainians alike. But... The drama around it as portrayed in Western media is ridiculous. There won't be major loss of life nor any "war" in conventional sense. It would be no more war than it was in Crimea in 2014. I don't justify. It's a political disaster but not a humanitarian one.

nikolayasdf123 5y ago
- MadeThisToReply 5y ago
  He's not a native speaker and his native language doesn't even use the Latin alphabet. Give him a break.
- throwawayloco 5y ago
jacquesm 5y ago
> There won't be major loss of life nor any "war" in conventional sense. That's a bit premature. As for the rest: Russians could rise en-masse to put a stop to this. Call a general strike all over Russia tomorrow and you might be able to avoid those decades of isolation and stagnating economy.
- zthrowaway 5y ago
  > That's a bit premature. I don't think so when looking at what has happened historically. Also, until Putin attacks NATO territory (which he most likely won't) there's not going to be an all out war. We in the West are being a bit hyperbolic. This is a serious issue, but not a "omg nukes are going to be flying next week" level of seriousness. I'd instead watch what China will do with Taiwan while we are distracted... Russia isn't some democracy that is cool with protesting. There are plenty of Russian's living there that are still USSR brainwashed and support this.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    > I don't think so when looking at what has happened historically. Interesting, I think that taking history into account that's actually far more likely than the opposite. > Also, until Putin attacks NATO territory (which he most likely won't) there's not going to be an all out war. That's two assumptions, both of which may be wrong, independently. > We in the West are being a bit hyperbolic. Hm. I don't think our current reaction to 'war at 30 km away from our Eastern border' is something that should be labelled hyperbolic. If anything it is rather tame. > This is a serious issue, but not a "omg nukes are going to be flying next week" level of seriousness. I'm not so much concerned with the next week bit as I am with the fact that you are worried about the timetable, but not about whether or not they will be flying at all. > I'd instead watch what China will do with Taiwan while we are distracted... Well, China now already knows something that they didn't know last week: that the Western world will stand by while they do what they want to do, as long as they don't attack a NATO member. > Russia isn't some democracy that is cool with protesting. Neither was Poland in the 80's. That didn't stop the protests. > There are plenty of Russian's living there that are still USSR brainwashed and support this. Yes, but that doesn't help the people in Ukraine.
    - nickysielicki 5y ago
      This is not a case of a dictatorship pursing war against the interests of 90% the population. A lot of Russians support the separatists and are glad to see the military step in. If you’re completely confused at why Putin is doing this and the best reason you can come up with is that he’s evil and stupid and just wants destruction, it’s only because you don’t understand the situation.
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        > A lot of Russians support the separatists and are glad to see the military step in. That doesn't really matter though, what matters is that they are there illegally. A lot of Germans supported the invasion of Poland as well to gain some 'lebensraum'. That did not make them right. > If you’re completely confused at why Putin is doing this and the best reason you can come up with is that he’s evil and stupid and just wants destruction, it’s only because you don’t understand the situation. I'm not confused at all. But it appears that you are given your alternative history regarding Donbas. Putin has a country that is imploding, and if he doesn't find a way to make it seem as though he is a powerful leader then he may be out of leadership position soon. Him starting this war is an act of desperation: nothing to lose and everything to gain because whatever he stands to lose he would have lost anyway.
- tibyat 5y ago
- Qub3d 5y ago
  Uh-huh, ask the Sailors of Kronstadt how that went: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kronstadt_rebellion#Aftermath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kronstadt_rebellion#Aftermath
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    1904? Really?
- tasha0663 5y ago
  > Russians could rise en-masse In order to do that in effective numbers that wouldn't get squashed immediately, there would have to be people leading and coordinating the opposition. Appearing to be such a person is a quick way to accidentally eat plutonium for breakfast.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
> It's a political disaster but not a humanitarian one. Yet; it's a strategic move for now, but what are Russia's plans after this? Just sit there and pretend nothing happened? This is part of a bigger plan.
lm28469 5y ago
> There won't be major loss of life nor any "war" When people were drafted for ww1 they thought it would last a few weeks/months... wait and see. At first most experts said there wouldn't be an invasion, then they said they'd only invade the eastern part, now we're talking about the whole country. Only time will tell
mlindner 5y ago
That's a bit naive. There are already hundreds of civilian casualties. The Russian shelling is not precise. They don't have the technology for that. They were using MLRS rockets which kill indiscriminately. There's a video circulating online of a little girl who got hit by a shell and killed. This is not like Crimea.
- coryfklein 5y ago
  > There are already hundreds of civilian casualties... This is not like Crimea. For those curious about the numbers, there were 2 soldiers and 1 civilian killed in the annexation of Crimea[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Ru...
- CapricornNoble 5y ago
  >>>The Russian shelling is not precise. They don't have the technology for that. Nitpick: they absolutely have the tech for it. They were using laser-guided heavy mortar rounds in Afghanistan. https://community.apan.org/cfs-file/__key/docpreview-s/00-00-08-27-71/2005_2D00_12_2D00_01-The-High_2D00_Precision-Tulip_2D00_-Development-and-Combat-Employment-_2800_Grau-and-Litvenenko_2900_.pdf https://community.apan.org/cfs-file/__key/docpreview-s/00-00...
- _dw7s 5y ago
  > That's a bit naive. They're not being naive. This is a deliberate effort to downplay the events. Always keep in mind that a war is often fought with different types of weapons, including information.
flavius29663 5y ago
can you tell me what pro-Putin Russians think about this? The ones that are not brainwashed? Like, how does Russia gain anything from this action? It only stands to lose economic ties in an ever increasing interconnected world. When Oil and Gas won't be king in 20 years, Russia is doomed without more cooperation with advanced countries. What are people thinking? What is the reason behind all this?
- kesor 5y ago
  I'm sure they think "we dont want the usa puppet masters anywhere around here". Which is exactly what Putin is writing in his speeches about. Have you read the speeches on the Kremlin's website? There is an english version that explains pretty much every reason that a pro-Putin Russian would gobble up as gospel.
- geoka9 5y ago
  Imagine North Korea, but with a shitload of nukes.
- d0mine 5y ago
  I have never seen a comment on politics which demonstrated non-brainwashed thinking on HN. Surprisingly, I saw more humane, fact-based, and independent thinking on tiktok.
nikolayasdf123 5y ago
adamsmith143 5y ago
>The drama around it as portrayed in Western media is ridiculous. There won't be major loss of life nor any "war" in conventional sense. It would be no more war than it was in Crimea in 2014. I don't justify. It's a political disaster but not a humanitarian one. Lay off the Vodka Sergei, there have already been airstrikes in a Dozen Ukrainian cities. The scale already far outpaces anything that happened in Crimea.
emptyfile 5y ago
[flagged]
HaZeust 5y ago
Trying to level with you here - what makes you so sure?
PoignardAzur 5y ago
> But... The drama around it as portrayed in Western media is ridiculous. There won't be major loss of life nor any "war" in conventional sense. It would be no more war than it was in Crimea in 2014. I don't justify. It's a political disaster but not a humanitarian one. Two weeks ago: The Western media is creating fake drama. Russia is never going to invade Ukraine. We're just trying to protect our security. This week: The Western media is overreacting. Yes, it's an invasion, but it's not really a war, there's not going to be that many casualties. Two weeks from now: The Western media is exaggerating. Yes, lots of people are dying, but this is a war, it can't be avoided. But it's really exaggerated to talk about "war crimes" and "mass civilian casualties". And we must not forget that this all began because of Western provocations!
- throw10920 5y ago
  Exactly. A few months ago, Russian higher-ups were claiming that it was moving troops around for military exercises. They're blatant liars and you can't trust anything they say, nor should you believe that they have any particular set of morals.
dntrkv 5y ago
The fuck are you talking about? It’s already escalated to something much worse than Crimea. Lay off the state-propaganda. - Russian that lives in the states

by mleg 5y ago

nikolayasdf123 5y ago

MadeThisToReply 5y ago
He's not a native speaker and his native language doesn't even use the Latin alphabet. Give him a break.
throwawayloco 5y ago

jacquesm 5y ago

> There won't be major loss of life nor any "war" in conventional sense. That's a bit premature. As for the rest: Russians could rise en-masse to put a stop to this. Call a general strike all over Russia tomorrow and you might be able to avoid those decades of isolation and stagnating economy.

zthrowaway 5y ago
> That's a bit premature. I don't think so when looking at what has happened historically. Also, until Putin attacks NATO territory (which he most likely won't) there's not going to be an all out war. We in the West are being a bit hyperbolic. This is a serious issue, but not a "omg nukes are going to be flying next week" level of seriousness. I'd instead watch what China will do with Taiwan while we are distracted... Russia isn't some democracy that is cool with protesting. There are plenty of Russian's living there that are still USSR brainwashed and support this.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  > I don't think so when looking at what has happened historically. Interesting, I think that taking history into account that's actually far more likely than the opposite. > Also, until Putin attacks NATO territory (which he most likely won't) there's not going to be an all out war. That's two assumptions, both of which may be wrong, independently. > We in the West are being a bit hyperbolic. Hm. I don't think our current reaction to 'war at 30 km away from our Eastern border' is something that should be labelled hyperbolic. If anything it is rather tame. > This is a serious issue, but not a "omg nukes are going to be flying next week" level of seriousness. I'm not so much concerned with the next week bit as I am with the fact that you are worried about the timetable, but not about whether or not they will be flying at all. > I'd instead watch what China will do with Taiwan while we are distracted... Well, China now already knows something that they didn't know last week: that the Western world will stand by while they do what they want to do, as long as they don't attack a NATO member. > Russia isn't some democracy that is cool with protesting. Neither was Poland in the 80's. That didn't stop the protests. > There are plenty of Russian's living there that are still USSR brainwashed and support this. Yes, but that doesn't help the people in Ukraine.
  - nickysielicki 5y ago
    This is not a case of a dictatorship pursing war against the interests of 90% the population. A lot of Russians support the separatists and are glad to see the military step in. If you’re completely confused at why Putin is doing this and the best reason you can come up with is that he’s evil and stupid and just wants destruction, it’s only because you don’t understand the situation.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      > A lot of Russians support the separatists and are glad to see the military step in. That doesn't really matter though, what matters is that they are there illegally. A lot of Germans supported the invasion of Poland as well to gain some 'lebensraum'. That did not make them right. > If you’re completely confused at why Putin is doing this and the best reason you can come up with is that he’s evil and stupid and just wants destruction, it’s only because you don’t understand the situation. I'm not confused at all. But it appears that you are given your alternative history regarding Donbas. Putin has a country that is imploding, and if he doesn't find a way to make it seem as though he is a powerful leader then he may be out of leadership position soon. Him starting this war is an act of desperation: nothing to lose and everything to gain because whatever he stands to lose he would have lost anyway.
tibyat 5y ago
Qub3d 5y ago
Uh-huh, ask the Sailors of Kronstadt how that went: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kronstadt_rebellion#Aftermath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kronstadt_rebellion#Aftermath
- jacquesm 5y ago
  1904? Really?
tasha0663 5y ago
> Russians could rise en-masse In order to do that in effective numbers that wouldn't get squashed immediately, there would have to be people leading and coordinating the opposition. Appearing to be such a person is a quick way to accidentally eat plutonium for breakfast.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago

> It's a political disaster but not a humanitarian one. Yet; it's a strategic move for now, but what are Russia's plans after this? Just sit there and pretend nothing happened? This is part of a bigger plan.

lm28469 5y ago

> There won't be major loss of life nor any "war" When people were drafted for ww1 they thought it would last a few weeks/months... wait and see. At first most experts said there wouldn't be an invasion, then they said they'd only invade the eastern part, now we're talking about the whole country. Only time will tell

mlindner 5y ago

That's a bit naive. There are already hundreds of civilian casualties. The Russian shelling is not precise. They don't have the technology for that. They were using MLRS rockets which kill indiscriminately. There's a video circulating online of a little girl who got hit by a shell and killed. This is not like Crimea.

coryfklein 5y ago
> There are already hundreds of civilian casualties... This is not like Crimea. For those curious about the numbers, there were 2 soldiers and 1 civilian killed in the annexation of Crimea[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Ru...
CapricornNoble 5y ago
>>>The Russian shelling is not precise. They don't have the technology for that. Nitpick: they absolutely have the tech for it. They were using laser-guided heavy mortar rounds in Afghanistan. https://community.apan.org/cfs-file/__key/docpreview-s/00-00-08-27-71/2005_2D00_12_2D00_01-The-High_2D00_Precision-Tulip_2D00_-Development-and-Combat-Employment-_2800_Grau-and-Litvenenko_2900_.pdf https://community.apan.org/cfs-file/__key/docpreview-s/00-00...
_dw7s 5y ago
> That's a bit naive. They're not being naive. This is a deliberate effort to downplay the events. Always keep in mind that a war is often fought with different types of weapons, including information.

flavius29663 5y ago

can you tell me what pro-Putin Russians think about this? The ones that are not brainwashed? Like, how does Russia gain anything from this action? It only stands to lose economic ties in an ever increasing interconnected world. When Oil and Gas won't be king in 20 years, Russia is doomed without more cooperation with advanced countries. What are people thinking? What is the reason behind all this?

kesor 5y ago
I'm sure they think "we dont want the usa puppet masters anywhere around here". Which is exactly what Putin is writing in his speeches about. Have you read the speeches on the Kremlin's website? There is an english version that explains pretty much every reason that a pro-Putin Russian would gobble up as gospel.
geoka9 5y ago
Imagine North Korea, but with a shitload of nukes.
d0mine 5y ago
I have never seen a comment on politics which demonstrated non-brainwashed thinking on HN. Surprisingly, I saw more humane, fact-based, and independent thinking on tiktok.

nikolayasdf123 5y ago

adamsmith143 5y ago

>The drama around it as portrayed in Western media is ridiculous. There won't be major loss of life nor any "war" in conventional sense. It would be no more war than it was in Crimea in 2014. I don't justify. It's a political disaster but not a humanitarian one. Lay off the Vodka Sergei, there have already been airstrikes in a Dozen Ukrainian cities. The scale already far outpaces anything that happened in Crimea.

emptyfile 5y ago

[flagged]

HaZeust 5y ago

Trying to level with you here - what makes you so sure?

PoignardAzur 5y ago

> But... The drama around it as portrayed in Western media is ridiculous. There won't be major loss of life nor any "war" in conventional sense. It would be no more war than it was in Crimea in 2014. I don't justify. It's a political disaster but not a humanitarian one. Two weeks ago: The Western media is creating fake drama. Russia is never going to invade Ukraine. We're just trying to protect our security. This week: The Western media is overreacting. Yes, it's an invasion, but it's not really a war, there's not going to be that many casualties. Two weeks from now: The Western media is exaggerating. Yes, lots of people are dying, but this is a war, it can't be avoided. But it's really exaggerated to talk about "war crimes" and "mass civilian casualties". And we must not forget that this all began because of Western provocations!

throw10920 5y ago
Exactly. A few months ago, Russian higher-ups were claiming that it was moving troops around for military exercises. They're blatant liars and you can't trust anything they say, nor should you believe that they have any particular set of morals.

dntrkv 5y ago

The fuck are you talking about? It’s already escalated to something much worse than Crimea. Lay off the state-propaganda. - Russian that lives in the states