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> In fact, an almost identical number of students fell into each of the three categories: their mental wellbeing had improved; there had been no change; or they

> In fact, an almost identical number of students fell into each of the three categories: their mental wellbeing had improved; there had been no change; or they had experienced a deterioration to their wellbeing. This feels like a red flag on the conclusions. How does this compare to a normal time period? I wouldn’t be surprised if the random ups and downs of growing up normally resulted in a distribution where 1/3 of students claim they felt happier, 1/3 of students claimed they felt the same, and 1/3 of students felt worse than the prior year. Journalists are so desperate to publish hot takes on COVID that we’ve forgotten that people’s lives normally change over time.

actually_a_dog 5y ago
> How does this compare to a normal time period? I wouldn’t be surprised if the random ups and downs of growing up normally resulted in a distribution where 1/3 of students claim they felt happier, 1/3 of students claimed they felt the same, and 1/3 of students felt worse than the prior year. This sounds to me like a distinction without a difference. In both cases, the net result would be approximately 0 effect on the overall mental health of the population being studied.
- Closi 5y ago
  > This sounds to me like a distinction without a difference. In both cases, the net result would be approximately 0 effect on the overall mental health of the population being studied. I believe OP is saying that the underlying assumption here is that students do not get happier during their time during university without lockdown. If for instance 2/3 students left university happier than when they started pre-lockdown/covid, this would need to be accounted for in any study to make it meaningful.
andjd 5y ago
My take is that this is a counterpoint to the dominant media narrative that covid and lockdowns have been detrimental to the mental heath of nearly every child, usually based on anecdata. So even if these results _aren't_ different from a normal year, that's still meaningful. I think this is the crux of their conclusions too: > While the pandemic has undoubtedly had negative consequences for many, it is important to keep in mind that this is not the case for all children and young people.
- zaroth 5y ago
  It's not all "anecdata"... > In May 2020, during the COVID-19 pandemic, ED visits for suspected suicide attempts began to increase among adolescents aged 12–17 years, especially girls. During February 21–March 20, 2021, suspected suicide attempt ED visits were 50.6% higher among girls aged 12–17 years than during the same period in 2019. [1] - https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7024e1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7024e1.htm
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    How did that play out over the rest of the pandemic, though? May 2020 was early in the pandemic, and there was a lot of turmoil. But things did settle down pretty quickly into a new normal for a lot of us.
  - qqqwerty 5y ago
    Alternative headline: "Lockdowns allowed for parents to keep a closer eye on their kids, as a result more suicide attempts were discovered during the pandemic. Actual suicides (and thus attempts) did not increase significantly." According to this source[1] 1 in 25 attempts in youth are successful vs 1 in 4 for the elderly. That leaves a lot of room for "attempt discovery" statistics to meaningfully change without any meaningful changes in actual attempts. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_attempt#:~:text=The%20American%20Association%20of%20Suicidology,about%204%3A1%20in%20elderly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_attempt#:~:text=The%20....
- ryandrake 5y ago
  And it's not just true for children. The narrative from the media has been overwhelmingly "Stay-at-home has been bad for everyone! Nobody is happier! Everyone wants to get back to normal." Almost zero recognition that for some people it's been bad, for some, not much of a change, and for some, it's been a very positive experience. Sure, some have pointed out that billionaires have gotten better off, but that's a non-story--when has that not been true?
gpderetta 5y ago
Breaking news: half of people happier than average!
- Scharkenberg 5y ago
  Well, it would be news if the median didn't coincide with the average.

actually_a_dog 5y ago

> How does this compare to a normal time period? I wouldn’t be surprised if the random ups and downs of growing up normally resulted in a distribution where 1/3 of students claim they felt happier, 1/3 of students claimed they felt the same, and 1/3 of students felt worse than the prior year. This sounds to me like a distinction without a difference. In both cases, the net result would be approximately 0 effect on the overall mental health of the population being studied.

Closi 5y ago
> This sounds to me like a distinction without a difference. In both cases, the net result would be approximately 0 effect on the overall mental health of the population being studied. I believe OP is saying that the underlying assumption here is that students do not get happier during their time during university without lockdown. If for instance 2/3 students left university happier than when they started pre-lockdown/covid, this would need to be accounted for in any study to make it meaningful.

andjd 5y ago

My take is that this is a counterpoint to the dominant media narrative that covid and lockdowns have been detrimental to the mental heath of nearly every child, usually based on anecdata. So even if these results _aren't_ different from a normal year, that's still meaningful. I think this is the crux of their conclusions too: > While the pandemic has undoubtedly had negative consequences for many, it is important to keep in mind that this is not the case for all children and young people.

zaroth 5y ago
It's not all "anecdata"... > In May 2020, during the COVID-19 pandemic, ED visits for suspected suicide attempts began to increase among adolescents aged 12–17 years, especially girls. During February 21–March 20, 2021, suspected suicide attempt ED visits were 50.6% higher among girls aged 12–17 years than during the same period in 2019. [1] - https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7024e1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7024e1.htm
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  How did that play out over the rest of the pandemic, though? May 2020 was early in the pandemic, and there was a lot of turmoil. But things did settle down pretty quickly into a new normal for a lot of us.
- qqqwerty 5y ago
  Alternative headline: "Lockdowns allowed for parents to keep a closer eye on their kids, as a result more suicide attempts were discovered during the pandemic. Actual suicides (and thus attempts) did not increase significantly." According to this source[1] 1 in 25 attempts in youth are successful vs 1 in 4 for the elderly. That leaves a lot of room for "attempt discovery" statistics to meaningfully change without any meaningful changes in actual attempts. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_attempt#:~:text=The%20American%20Association%20of%20Suicidology,about%204%3A1%20in%20elderly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_attempt#:~:text=The%20....
ryandrake 5y ago
And it's not just true for children. The narrative from the media has been overwhelmingly "Stay-at-home has been bad for everyone! Nobody is happier! Everyone wants to get back to normal." Almost zero recognition that for some people it's been bad, for some, not much of a change, and for some, it's been a very positive experience. Sure, some have pointed out that billionaires have gotten better off, but that's a non-story--when has that not been true?

gpderetta 5y ago

Breaking news: half of people happier than average!

Scharkenberg 5y ago
Well, it would be news if the median didn't coincide with the average.