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That's one thing. Chinese companies can't be seen as different from the government. You can blame the US for a lot of things, but it doesn't come close to the a

by toshk 5y ago

That's one thing. Chinese companies can't be seen as different from the government. You can blame the US for a lot of things, but it doesn't come close to the atrocities the Chinese government commits on a daily basis.

wongarsu 5y ago
Chinese companies can't be seen as different from their government, US companies can't be seen as different from their advertisers. The Chinese ones are arguably worse right now, but that's due to a difference in current attitudes of their censors, not because one of them is somehow free from pressure.
- ironSkillet 5y ago
  The difference is that the Chinese government can apply pressure via violence and arbitrary enforcement of laws, whereas advertisers can...decide to take their money elsewhere. Which is worse and more likely to lead to abuse?
  - trasz 5y ago
    US government is pressuring US companies in the exact same way, Snowden proved that.
    - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
      The existence of Snowden, and his being alive and not dead, proves a salient difference.
      - trasz 5y ago
        He’s only alive because he was able to flee to Russia.
        JumpCrisscross 5y ago
        > only alive because he was able to flee to Russia This is disingenuous. America hasn’t resorted to polonium tea tactics in the modern era. Chelsea Manning is injured but free.
        trasz 5y ago
        Indeed, America drones people instead. Orders of magnitude more people.
    - toshk 5y ago
      You have no idea. Human lives mean nothing in China
      - trasz 5y ago
        [citation needed]
trasz 5y ago
Let me remind you that the country with the highest percentage of imprisoned people is USA, not China. “Incomparable atrocities” is mostly just US state propaganda.
pastacacioepepe 5y ago
What China did doesn't even come close to the amount of atrocities, interferences in foreign politics, unwarranted wars caused only by the imperialist mindset of the US. Please, read. There is so much to learn that it would probably take years for someone to learn in detail everything the US (and the other western powers, -the "good" guys-) have done. These are just the official war crimes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes These are just 7 of the legitimate governments the US have overthrown: https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/20/mapped-the-7-governments-the-u-s-has-overthrown/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/20/mapped-the-7-government... More in Africa: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-36303327 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-36303327 This one is dear to me, the CIA activity in Italy to interfere with our democratic process: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Italy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Italy You can also check the list of the human right violations committed by the CIA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_violations_by_the_CIA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_violations_by_the... Let's forget about Guantanamo eh? Bonus: The cost of the post 9/11 US wars in the middle east: https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  Your citations are honest. But past performance doesn’t guarantee the future. It just informs it. Most of America’s worst was in its post-War and imperialist eras. China is entering its own imperialist era. If you’re upset about American meddling in Italian politics through the 1960s, you’ve surely seen who’s been bankrolling the current crop. In Italy, in the Philippines and elsewhere.
- toshk 5y ago
  I understand your sentiment. And US has made a big mess in many places no doubt. Yet please understand the view on individual rights in China is non-existent. Take for instance Guantanamo bay is child's play compared to treatment of: - Falun Gong, they organ harvested their followers and sold their organs on the black market - Entire Muslim population in Re-education camps + chemical sterilization - Tibet as a people, country and culture is systematically being eradicated by a very well thought out strategy And many more things happening. And the imperial games the US played last 30 years. China is playing now, they have secretly taken over many African countries. And if it wasn't for the military power of the US China would be much more blatant in taking over countries. Wether we like it or not, we need the US as a super power to balance out the others.

by toshk 5y ago

wongarsu 5y ago

Chinese companies can't be seen as different from their government, US companies can't be seen as different from their advertisers. The Chinese ones are arguably worse right now, but that's due to a difference in current attitudes of their censors, not because one of them is somehow free from pressure.

ironSkillet 5y ago
The difference is that the Chinese government can apply pressure via violence and arbitrary enforcement of laws, whereas advertisers can...decide to take their money elsewhere. Which is worse and more likely to lead to abuse?
- trasz 5y ago
  US government is pressuring US companies in the exact same way, Snowden proved that.
  - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
    The existence of Snowden, and his being alive and not dead, proves a salient difference.
    - trasz 5y ago
      He’s only alive because he was able to flee to Russia.
      - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
        > only alive because he was able to flee to Russia This is disingenuous. America hasn’t resorted to polonium tea tactics in the modern era. Chelsea Manning is injured but free.
        trasz 5y ago
        Indeed, America drones people instead. Orders of magnitude more people.
  - toshk 5y ago
    You have no idea. Human lives mean nothing in China
    - trasz 5y ago
      [citation needed]

trasz 5y ago

Let me remind you that the country with the highest percentage of imprisoned people is USA, not China. “Incomparable atrocities” is mostly just US state propaganda.

pastacacioepepe 5y ago

What China did doesn't even come close to the amount of atrocities, interferences in foreign politics, unwarranted wars caused only by the imperialist mindset of the US. Please, read. There is so much to learn that it would probably take years for someone to learn in detail everything the US (and the other western powers, -the "good" guys-) have done. These are just the official war crimes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes These are just 7 of the legitimate governments the US have overthrown: https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/20/mapped-the-7-governments-the-u-s-has-overthrown/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/20/mapped-the-7-government... More in Africa: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-36303327 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-36303327 This one is dear to me, the CIA activity in Italy to interfere with our democratic process: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Italy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Italy You can also check the list of the human right violations committed by the CIA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_violations_by_the_CIA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_violations_by_the... Let's forget about Guantanamo eh? Bonus: The cost of the post 9/11 US wars in the middle east: https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human

JumpCrisscross 5y ago
Your citations are honest. But past performance doesn’t guarantee the future. It just informs it. Most of America’s worst was in its post-War and imperialist eras. China is entering its own imperialist era. If you’re upset about American meddling in Italian politics through the 1960s, you’ve surely seen who’s been bankrolling the current crop. In Italy, in the Philippines and elsewhere.
toshk 5y ago
I understand your sentiment. And US has made a big mess in many places no doubt. Yet please understand the view on individual rights in China is non-existent. Take for instance Guantanamo bay is child's play compared to treatment of: - Falun Gong, they organ harvested their followers and sold their organs on the black market - Entire Muslim population in Re-education camps + chemical sterilization - Tibet as a people, country and culture is systematically being eradicated by a very well thought out strategy And many more things happening. And the imperial games the US played last 30 years. China is playing now, they have secretly taken over many African countries. And if it wasn't for the military power of the US China would be much more blatant in taking over countries. Wether we like it or not, we need the US as a super power to balance out the others.