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Ukraine wasn't going to be accepted into NATO anyway. They asked. Weren't accepted. Ukraine knows this, Russia knows this, NATO countries know this. It's just R

by ajuc 5y ago

Ukraine wasn't going to be accepted into NATO anyway. They asked. Weren't accepted. Ukraine knows this, Russia knows this, NATO countries know this. It's just Russian excuse for propaganda reasons. The real reason is that Russians consider Ukrainians "the same nation" and if Ukrainians entered EU or some sort of association with it, and got richer than Russians like Poles, Slovaks, Czechs, Balts etc. - it would be very bad for Putin approval in Russia. Russians would start to think "it could be us", "it could work without the tyranny". So Putin can't let westernized, wealthy Ukraine to exist. Same reason he helped Lukashenko to stop revolution in Belarus recently. The rest ("history" lectures, "NATO is encroaching", "Ukrainians are nazis and bombard Russian speakers in Ukraine") - it's just bullshit excuses. Don'r repeat them, please. You are helping an aggressive nationalist dictatorship murder people by accepting their excuses.

sampo 5y ago
Here's a 2022 The Atlantic article suggesting the same: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/02/putin-ukraine-democracy/621465/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/02/putin-ukra... And a 2014 blog post also suggesting the same: https://skibinsky.com/no-russian/ https://skibinsky.com/no-russian/
ayngg 5y ago
I don't think it is either or, NATO is just a symbol for western alignment which reaches the same ends you describe. Beyond whatever foundational context, the three conflicts related the Ukraine and Georgia were precipitated by this (specifically most recently with the Brussels summit in 2021) which suggests it is a very definitive line in the sand, regardless of whether or not it is the actual reasoning. This is the third time the west has tested that line, it is the third time Russia has responded in this way, and it will most likely be the third time the West does nothing but implement sanctions because it isn't as important to them as it is to Russia. This isn't a justification for actions, it is about understanding the situation through the chaos.

by ajuc 5y ago

sampo 5y ago

Here's a 2022 The Atlantic article suggesting the same: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/02/putin-ukraine-democracy/621465/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/02/putin-ukra... And a 2014 blog post also suggesting the same: https://skibinsky.com/no-russian/ https://skibinsky.com/no-russian/

ayngg 5y ago

I don't think it is either or, NATO is just a symbol for western alignment which reaches the same ends you describe. Beyond whatever foundational context, the three conflicts related the Ukraine and Georgia were precipitated by this (specifically most recently with the Brussels summit in 2021) which suggests it is a very definitive line in the sand, regardless of whether or not it is the actual reasoning. This is the third time the west has tested that line, it is the third time Russia has responded in this way, and it will most likely be the third time the West does nothing but implement sanctions because it isn't as important to them as it is to Russia. This isn't a justification for actions, it is about understanding the situation through the chaos.