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> The powers included the ability to freeze the accounts of those suspected of supporting the blockades, without obtaining a court order. Standing beside Trudea

by koolba 5y ago

> The powers included the ability to freeze the accounts of those suspected of supporting the blockades, without obtaining a court order. Standing beside Trudeau, Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland said most of those accounts were in the process of being released. > The aim of freezing the accounts was "to convince people who took part in the occupation and the illegal blockades to listen to reason," Freeland said, adding that the government had already asked banks to begin "to unfreeze these bank accounts." Whatever you may think of the vaccine mandates and other Covid restrictions, I hope we can’t all agree that freezing assets without a court order to break the will of the protesters is an overreach. Imagine if they said you can’t spend cash in stores. I bet they would if they could. Long term this is going to make for a lot of crypto enthusiasm.

Lascaille 5y ago
[flagged]
- grrrrlpower 5y ago
  [dead]
- dennis_jeeves1 5y ago
  Paradox of tolerance is what degenerates many functioning groups (including organizations, companies, nations). It should have never come to this stage...
- ksajadi 5y ago
  For everyone's sake, I hope you never get branded as a Nazi, for whatever reason, by a government that thinks like you.
  - Lascaille 5y ago
    I would have thought the last sentence of my comment would have been enough of a signifier.
    - radarsat1 5y ago
      You seem to be unfamiliar with Poe's Law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
  - zarkov99 5y ago
    Pretty sure the OP was being sarcastic.
    - ksajadi 5y ago
      Maybe I was too!
    - pclmulqdq 5y ago
      Many people who say similar things on the internet are not being sarcastic about it, so it's hard to tell.
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    Would you have said the same back in 1933-45, when the US, Brits and Soviets literally invaded Germany for being a Nazi country? I'm German, we have extensively learned about these twelve years in school. Trust us Germans on our experience with Nazism to say that it must be stopped in its roots before it gets hold and storms your Capitol.
    - ksajadi 5y ago
      I grew up in a dictatorship and spent 12 years in school being taught people carrying certain labels are really really bad and subhuman. From that point it was very easy to fill up the prisons and execute almost 60,000 people just by applying those labels to anyone they wanted. Anti-revolutionary, infidel, morally corrupt and other words. I am very scared of the Nazis (I also have other reasons to be scared of them because of the color of my skin, etc), but I am more scared of labels and people who apply those labels without a proper legal process. Trust me!
      - inglor_cz 5y ago
        Are you an Iranian?
    - allisdust 5y ago
      But how do you tell which sides are the Nazis. I know it's controversial but hind sight is 20/20 and here both sides claim the other side is authoritarian. I don't think we can just assume the next Nazis will use the same name as the ones before. They however will certainly grow out of hatred. The world nations buried a seed of hatred in German heart through reparations post WW1 and the whole world reaped the horrors that grew out of it. The current leaders should always remember while kicking the weak ones today. How much bitterness and hatred am i sowing with my actions and who will reap the horrors. Same goes with the people on either side that cheer whenever authoritarian actions take place. They could be cheering their own destruction or of future generations.
      - mschuster91 5y ago
        > But how do you tell which sides are the Nazis. By listening to what they say, what they want and whom they follow and analyzing that. People claiming that "a secret cabal of Jews" or whatever is trying to introduce a "new world order" via the coronavirus pandemic, or that Black people or immigrants are the root cause of an economic crisis are most likely Nazi sympathizers.
mschuster91 5y ago
> Whatever you may think of the vaccine mandates and other Covid restrictions, I hope we can’t all agree that freezing assets without a court order to break the will of the protesters is an overreach. That power is part of emergency authorizations, which have been given by the parliament to the executive precisely for the event that a situation is a severe threat to the stability of the nation. > Long term this is going to make for a lot of crypto enthusiasm. Highly doubt that, for a number of reasons: - Crypto is showing right now with the price collapse as a reaction to the Ukraine invasion that it is not suitable as any kind of long-term storage - people are growing skeptical about the ecological and economical impact of crypto coins. Just look at all the supply shortages for everything (CPUs, GPUs, RAM chips, even bulk storage) - people are sick of not being able to buy parts just because of cryptominers outmatching the market price. And the final nail in the coffin of public interest in crypto (other than NFTs, which were mostly celebrity-driven) were the news of people buying up coal plants to mine coins. - the inevitable NFT crash will lead to a lot of people being burned off of crypto for a very long time - and without people to trade crypto with, the coins become effectively worthless. - fundamentally, cryptocurrencies will always have to be converted back to fiat money at some point. And that's where the flow of money can be stopped at will of the government again.
jleyank 5y ago
Obviously you don’t live in the us as I recall seizures due to “the war on drugs” occurring for decades. Police departments supposedly use it for funding, and you needed court action to get your cash/goods back. Funding illegal activities always had repercussions for those involved.
- pclmulqdq 5y ago
  I don't think any of those were account freezes, though, mostly civil asset forfeiture. Civil asset forfeiture is an abhorrent practice, but it is different than freezing someone's bank account.
  - jleyank 5y ago
    I think it worse, as “I want my house back” is worse than “could you unfreeze my bank account”…
    - lowkey 5y ago
      I would say they are different, not necessarily better or worse. In this case the target was political protesters who opposed the government. Civil forfeiture is wrong, but targeting dissidents and threatening to make them economic non-persons is a different kind of chilling.
- tremon 5y ago
  Doesn't the crypto enthusiasm from inside the US underscore the parent's point?
- bko 5y ago
  You can be against both. > Q: What things can be forfeited? > A: There are different legal theories of forfeiture. Property that the wrongdoer would not have had but for the crime can be forfeited as proceeds. For example, cash acquired through an unlawful activity such as drug dealing, or a car bought with cash from drug dealing can be forfeited under the proceeds theory. Property that makes the crime easier to commit or harder to detect is called facilitating property. For example, a house where drug sales occur can be forfeited under the facilitating theory. Property that the wrongdoer would not have had but for the crime can be forfeited as proceeds. Does this get abused? Sure. But I don't think this includes a shop owner donating $50 to some cause having their entire bank account frozen. https://www.justice.gov/usao-mdpa/divisions/asset-forfeiture https://www.justice.gov/usao-mdpa/divisions/asset-forfeiture

by koolba 5y ago

Lascaille 5y ago

[flagged]

grrrrlpower 5y ago
[dead]
dennis_jeeves1 5y ago
Paradox of tolerance is what degenerates many functioning groups (including organizations, companies, nations). It should have never come to this stage...
ksajadi 5y ago
For everyone's sake, I hope you never get branded as a Nazi, for whatever reason, by a government that thinks like you.
- Lascaille 5y ago
  I would have thought the last sentence of my comment would have been enough of a signifier.
  - radarsat1 5y ago
    You seem to be unfamiliar with Poe's Law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
- zarkov99 5y ago
  Pretty sure the OP was being sarcastic.
  - ksajadi 5y ago
    Maybe I was too!
  - pclmulqdq 5y ago
    Many people who say similar things on the internet are not being sarcastic about it, so it's hard to tell.
- mschuster91 5y ago
  Would you have said the same back in 1933-45, when the US, Brits and Soviets literally invaded Germany for being a Nazi country? I'm German, we have extensively learned about these twelve years in school. Trust us Germans on our experience with Nazism to say that it must be stopped in its roots before it gets hold and storms your Capitol.
  - ksajadi 5y ago
    I grew up in a dictatorship and spent 12 years in school being taught people carrying certain labels are really really bad and subhuman. From that point it was very easy to fill up the prisons and execute almost 60,000 people just by applying those labels to anyone they wanted. Anti-revolutionary, infidel, morally corrupt and other words. I am very scared of the Nazis (I also have other reasons to be scared of them because of the color of my skin, etc), but I am more scared of labels and people who apply those labels without a proper legal process. Trust me!
    - inglor_cz 5y ago
      Are you an Iranian?
  - allisdust 5y ago
    But how do you tell which sides are the Nazis. I know it's controversial but hind sight is 20/20 and here both sides claim the other side is authoritarian. I don't think we can just assume the next Nazis will use the same name as the ones before. They however will certainly grow out of hatred. The world nations buried a seed of hatred in German heart through reparations post WW1 and the whole world reaped the horrors that grew out of it. The current leaders should always remember while kicking the weak ones today. How much bitterness and hatred am i sowing with my actions and who will reap the horrors. Same goes with the people on either side that cheer whenever authoritarian actions take place. They could be cheering their own destruction or of future generations.
    - mschuster91 5y ago
      > But how do you tell which sides are the Nazis. By listening to what they say, what they want and whom they follow and analyzing that. People claiming that "a secret cabal of Jews" or whatever is trying to introduce a "new world order" via the coronavirus pandemic, or that Black people or immigrants are the root cause of an economic crisis are most likely Nazi sympathizers.

mschuster91 5y ago

> Whatever you may think of the vaccine mandates and other Covid restrictions, I hope we can’t all agree that freezing assets without a court order to break the will of the protesters is an overreach. That power is part of emergency authorizations, which have been given by the parliament to the executive precisely for the event that a situation is a severe threat to the stability of the nation. > Long term this is going to make for a lot of crypto enthusiasm. Highly doubt that, for a number of reasons: - Crypto is showing right now with the price collapse as a reaction to the Ukraine invasion that it is not suitable as any kind of long-term storage - people are growing skeptical about the ecological and economical impact of crypto coins. Just look at all the supply shortages for everything (CPUs, GPUs, RAM chips, even bulk storage) - people are sick of not being able to buy parts just because of cryptominers outmatching the market price. And the final nail in the coffin of public interest in crypto (other than NFTs, which were mostly celebrity-driven) were the news of people buying up coal plants to mine coins. - the inevitable NFT crash will lead to a lot of people being burned off of crypto for a very long time - and without people to trade crypto with, the coins become effectively worthless. - fundamentally, cryptocurrencies will always have to be converted back to fiat money at some point. And that's where the flow of money can be stopped at will of the government again.

jleyank 5y ago

Obviously you don’t live in the us as I recall seizures due to “the war on drugs” occurring for decades. Police departments supposedly use it for funding, and you needed court action to get your cash/goods back. Funding illegal activities always had repercussions for those involved.

pclmulqdq 5y ago
I don't think any of those were account freezes, though, mostly civil asset forfeiture. Civil asset forfeiture is an abhorrent practice, but it is different than freezing someone's bank account.
- jleyank 5y ago
  I think it worse, as “I want my house back” is worse than “could you unfreeze my bank account”…
  - lowkey 5y ago
    I would say they are different, not necessarily better or worse. In this case the target was political protesters who opposed the government. Civil forfeiture is wrong, but targeting dissidents and threatening to make them economic non-persons is a different kind of chilling.
tremon 5y ago
Doesn't the crypto enthusiasm from inside the US underscore the parent's point?
bko 5y ago
You can be against both. > Q: What things can be forfeited? > A: There are different legal theories of forfeiture. Property that the wrongdoer would not have had but for the crime can be forfeited as proceeds. For example, cash acquired through an unlawful activity such as drug dealing, or a car bought with cash from drug dealing can be forfeited under the proceeds theory. Property that makes the crime easier to commit or harder to detect is called facilitating property. For example, a house where drug sales occur can be forfeited under the facilitating theory. Property that the wrongdoer would not have had but for the crime can be forfeited as proceeds. Does this get abused? Sure. But I don't think this includes a shop owner donating $50 to some cause having their entire bank account frozen. https://www.justice.gov/usao-mdpa/divisions/asset-forfeiture https://www.justice.gov/usao-mdpa/divisions/asset-forfeiture