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Russians (some of them, to clarify) associate the current Ukrainian regime with Nazism/fascism. After all, far right groups were a major part of the 2014 revolu

Russians (some of them, to clarify) associate the current Ukrainian regime with Nazism/fascism. After all, far right groups were a major part of the 2014 revolution/putsch. https://crimethinc.com/2022/02/15/war-and-anarchists-anti-authoritarian-perspectives-in-ukraine https://crimethinc.com/2022/02/15/war-and-anarchists-anti-au... (note: the disinformation section is especially relevant)

sbmthakur 5y ago
> Russians associate the current Ukrainian regime with Nazism/fascism. I guess you are speaking for majority of Russians. Is there an independent survey to back it up?
- ironcurtain 5y ago
  Look up the chant - Moskalyaku na gilyaku - which supporters of the current regime chant all the time. Plenty of videos of that. Check what it means.
  - artem247 5y ago
    There were elections in 2019 which completely changed power in Ukraine, humorous chant from 2014 has no relation to power in modern ukraine.
evilyach 5y ago
Why are you saying that? Not all Russians are brainwashed by state propaganda. I think very few Russians who read Hackernews actually support what is going on right now, if any. To be honest, me and all of the people around me thought that this is too crazy to happen, but here we are.
- CameronNemo 5y ago
  Russians who read HN are probably in the minority though, right? And yeah not everyone listens to propaganda, and there is going to be a lot of diversity of opinion, but propaganda does work and a large percent of the population are going to get duped.
  - epgui 5y ago
    That's the thing that people don't understand about propaganda: the reason it's bad and scary is that _it works_.
    - epgui 5y ago
      Corollary (because I’m not sure I was explicit enough): propaganda most certainly has worked on me without my even realizing, a great many times I am sure, and it most certainly has worked on you as well, dear HackerNews reader. Don’t make the mistake of thinking you’re immune, or too clever.
- epgui 5y ago
  I say this with much affection and no presumption: I think Russian nationals on HackerNews are probably not a representative sample of Russian nationals generally speaking.
  - catlikesshrimp 5y ago
    I think %anycountry nationals% on HackerNews are probably not a representative sample of %anycountry nationals% generally speaking.
    - epgui 5y ago
      Yes, that’s what I said and meant. I was only more specific because the context was more specific. There was no intended suggestion that this would not also be the case for other nationalities. See: “principle of charitable interpretation”
- radu_floricica 5y ago
  This reminds me of "I can tolerate anything except the outgroup": > What I mean is – well, take creationists. According to Gallup polls, about 46% of Americans are creationists. Not just in the sense of believing God helped guide evolution. I mean they think evolution is a vile atheist lie and God created humans exactly as they exist right now. That’s half the country. > And I don’t have a single one of those people in my social circle. It’s not because I’m deliberately avoiding them; I’m pretty live-and-let-live politically, I wouldn’t ostracize someone just for some weird beliefs. And yet, even though I probably know about a hundred fifty people, I am pretty confident that not one of them is creationist. Odds of this happening by chance? 1/2^150 = 1/10^45 = approximately the chance of picking a particular atom if you are randomly selecting among all the atoms on Earth. You could live in a circle that unanimously opposes the war, and still be in a country that's 60% for it. Thing is, given the propaganda machine in Russia and the lack of free (even non-guvernamental) organizations we can't really tell if that percentage is 6% or 60%.
vkou 5y ago
"Yes/No" support is a bit of an over-simplifaction of the situation. There's two major axes, here. The government is pushing the 'Ukranian neo-nazis' propaganda, because it's a convenient bullshit excuse (as is all the spilled ink in Putin's essay about long-dead history). Some soft-headed people obviously believe that wholesale. What isn't an excuse, though, is that Ukraine did take steps to restrict its Russian minority. Many Russians who don't swallow the neo-nazi nonsense are sympathetic to that view on the situation (for, uh, obvious nationalistic reasons). Now, whether or not sympathy for that is sufficient grounds to do nothing and respect Ukrainian sovereignty, to prosecute a proxy war, a limited war, or a full war all depends on how much of a warhawk you personally are. My highly unscientific feeling is that public support rests somewhere north of 'most Russians believe that Ukraine has been repressing Russians, and would support a proxy war', and somewhere short of 'drive the fascist swine out - prosecute a full war and occupation of Kiev'.
- ironcurtain 5y ago
  Take steps like completely restricting Russian language in schools, public spaces, TV, etc? Considering that 100 years ago Ukrainian language was a dialect for peasants, that’s quite a leap. Communists started “rooting” - korenization - program in 1920s when Russians were wholesale written as Ukrainians in their ID papers, another 20 years of these steps and there will be no Russians left in Ukraine, same thing happened to Turks in Bulgaria. People remember and the current regime in Kiew is controlled by ultra-nationalists from Volyn and Galicia, with their worship of Bandera, OUN/UPA and the rest of the scum. When they came to power during Maidan, people hear the chant all the time - “Moskalyaku na gilyaku”. Do you know what it means?
  - artem247 5y ago
    Current regime — is a Russian speaking comedian Vova Zelenskiy (who is a Jew) and his party, which won elections. There is no nationalist party in Ukrainian parliament. There is Russian language in public spaces and TV. There are more then 600 schools with Russian language of instruction. "Dialect for peasants" has its roots in Ruthenian language, that was a main language in Grand Duchy of Lithuania. And no, Russians were not written wholesale as Ukrainians, anyone who can check Soviet records can attest that. >> people hear the chant all the time - “Moskalyaku na gilyaku Well, if they would listen to Russian TV, they would hear that.

sbmthakur 5y ago

> Russians associate the current Ukrainian regime with Nazism/fascism. I guess you are speaking for majority of Russians. Is there an independent survey to back it up?

ironcurtain 5y ago
Look up the chant - Moskalyaku na gilyaku - which supporters of the current regime chant all the time. Plenty of videos of that. Check what it means.
- artem247 5y ago
  There were elections in 2019 which completely changed power in Ukraine, humorous chant from 2014 has no relation to power in modern ukraine.

evilyach 5y ago

Why are you saying that? Not all Russians are brainwashed by state propaganda. I think very few Russians who read Hackernews actually support what is going on right now, if any. To be honest, me and all of the people around me thought that this is too crazy to happen, but here we are.

CameronNemo 5y ago
Russians who read HN are probably in the minority though, right? And yeah not everyone listens to propaganda, and there is going to be a lot of diversity of opinion, but propaganda does work and a large percent of the population are going to get duped.
- epgui 5y ago
  That's the thing that people don't understand about propaganda: the reason it's bad and scary is that _it works_.
  - epgui 5y ago
    Corollary (because I’m not sure I was explicit enough): propaganda most certainly has worked on me without my even realizing, a great many times I am sure, and it most certainly has worked on you as well, dear HackerNews reader. Don’t make the mistake of thinking you’re immune, or too clever.
epgui 5y ago
I say this with much affection and no presumption: I think Russian nationals on HackerNews are probably not a representative sample of Russian nationals generally speaking.
- catlikesshrimp 5y ago
  I think %anycountry nationals% on HackerNews are probably not a representative sample of %anycountry nationals% generally speaking.
  - epgui 5y ago
    Yes, that’s what I said and meant. I was only more specific because the context was more specific. There was no intended suggestion that this would not also be the case for other nationalities. See: “principle of charitable interpretation”
radu_floricica 5y ago
This reminds me of "I can tolerate anything except the outgroup": > What I mean is – well, take creationists. According to Gallup polls, about 46% of Americans are creationists. Not just in the sense of believing God helped guide evolution. I mean they think evolution is a vile atheist lie and God created humans exactly as they exist right now. That’s half the country. > And I don’t have a single one of those people in my social circle. It’s not because I’m deliberately avoiding them; I’m pretty live-and-let-live politically, I wouldn’t ostracize someone just for some weird beliefs. And yet, even though I probably know about a hundred fifty people, I am pretty confident that not one of them is creationist. Odds of this happening by chance? 1/2^150 = 1/10^45 = approximately the chance of picking a particular atom if you are randomly selecting among all the atoms on Earth. You could live in a circle that unanimously opposes the war, and still be in a country that's 60% for it. Thing is, given the propaganda machine in Russia and the lack of free (even non-guvernamental) organizations we can't really tell if that percentage is 6% or 60%.

vkou 5y ago

"Yes/No" support is a bit of an over-simplifaction of the situation. There's two major axes, here. The government is pushing the 'Ukranian neo-nazis' propaganda, because it's a convenient bullshit excuse (as is all the spilled ink in Putin's essay about long-dead history). Some soft-headed people obviously believe that wholesale. What isn't an excuse, though, is that Ukraine did take steps to restrict its Russian minority. Many Russians who don't swallow the neo-nazi nonsense are sympathetic to that view on the situation (for, uh, obvious nationalistic reasons). Now, whether or not sympathy for that is sufficient grounds to do nothing and respect Ukrainian sovereignty, to prosecute a proxy war, a limited war, or a full war all depends on how much of a warhawk you personally are. My highly unscientific feeling is that public support rests somewhere north of 'most Russians believe that Ukraine has been repressing Russians, and would support a proxy war', and somewhere short of 'drive the fascist swine out - prosecute a full war and occupation of Kiev'.

ironcurtain 5y ago
Take steps like completely restricting Russian language in schools, public spaces, TV, etc? Considering that 100 years ago Ukrainian language was a dialect for peasants, that’s quite a leap. Communists started “rooting” - korenization - program in 1920s when Russians were wholesale written as Ukrainians in their ID papers, another 20 years of these steps and there will be no Russians left in Ukraine, same thing happened to Turks in Bulgaria. People remember and the current regime in Kiew is controlled by ultra-nationalists from Volyn and Galicia, with their worship of Bandera, OUN/UPA and the rest of the scum. When they came to power during Maidan, people hear the chant all the time - “Moskalyaku na gilyaku”. Do you know what it means?
- artem247 5y ago
  Current regime — is a Russian speaking comedian Vova Zelenskiy (who is a Jew) and his party, which won elections. There is no nationalist party in Ukrainian parliament. There is Russian language in public spaces and TV. There are more then 600 schools with Russian language of instruction. "Dialect for peasants" has its roots in Ruthenian language, that was a main language in Grand Duchy of Lithuania. And no, Russians were not written wholesale as Ukrainians, anyone who can check Soviet records can attest that. >> people hear the chant all the time - “Moskalyaku na gilyaku Well, if they would listen to Russian TV, they would hear that.