5 ms·

Between this and the takeover of Afghanistan it certainly has been an extremely sad year. The End of History? Not so fast. Free people not having a good run he

Between this and the takeover of Afghanistan it certainly has been an extremely sad year. The End of History? Not so fast. Free people not having a good run here.

throwaway5752 5y ago
The US was an occupier of Afganistan. The US agreed to a withdrawal in exchange for a truce with the Taliban under the previous administration, which was honored by the next administration. This is an invasion of a peaceful country by its neighbor. They are complete opposites.
- rectang 5y ago
  The similarity is that the both the Russians and the Taliban do not allow for self-determination by the citizenry.
  - basementcat 5y ago
    I’m sure if you ask public servants in Afghanistan and Russia, they’ll both agree that they have the overwhelming support of the citizenry and any statements to the contrary are obviously lies.
    - tim333 5y ago
      I'm not sure what your point is there.
  - 8note 5y ago
    Russia argues that it's defending the self determination of ethnic Russians in the Ukraine. Maintaining the current borders does not advocate for self determination. War might not either, but the Ukraine isn't going to give up that land peacefully
    - rectang 5y ago
      First, it's not exactly clear that those ethnic Russian regions wish to be ruled by the Russian state. Second, Russia is in the midst of a full-blown invasion of all of Ukraine, and Putin has claimed that all Ukrainians are in fact Russians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Historical_Unity_of_Russians_and_Ukrainians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Historical_Unity_of_Rus...
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  Al-Queda attacked New York city unprovoked. Not an invasion and not defending US, just that it was not American expansionism that led to invasion of Afghanistan. US has no interest in imperialism.
  - freeflight 5y ago
    > just that it was not American expansionism that led to invasion of Afghanistan US presence, aka expansionism in the MENA region, was very much the declared motivator for AQ and OBL. Thus the demands were also to pull US troops out of these countries, those demands already existed before 9/11.
    - systemvoltage 5y ago
      > US presence, aka expansionism Not to dig into this too much, but what I meant was that US wasn't there to permanently make Afghanistan a territory of USA.
      - freeflight 5y ago
        The US rather prefers to vassalize countries instead of straight up annexing as it used to, like with Hawaii or Texas. Already got enough states trying to take care of and some territories existing in weird places, so I doubt there is much incentive to add even more of that, except maybe Cuba.
- woadwarrior01 5y ago
  And were the Taliban, a democratically elected regime? Granted, they were (are?) less corrupt that the government that the US had installed, but they don't represent the interests of the people of Afghanistan, either.
VictorPath 5y ago

Between this and the takeover of Afghanistan it certainly has been an extremely sad year. The End of History? Not so fast. Free people not having a good run here.

throwaway5752 5y ago

The US was an occupier of Afganistan. The US agreed to a withdrawal in exchange for a truce with the Taliban under the previous administration, which was honored by the next administration. This is an invasion of a peaceful country by its neighbor. They are complete opposites.

rectang 5y ago
The similarity is that the both the Russians and the Taliban do not allow for self-determination by the citizenry.
- basementcat 5y ago
  I’m sure if you ask public servants in Afghanistan and Russia, they’ll both agree that they have the overwhelming support of the citizenry and any statements to the contrary are obviously lies.
  - tim333 5y ago
    I'm not sure what your point is there.
- 8note 5y ago
  Russia argues that it's defending the self determination of ethnic Russians in the Ukraine. Maintaining the current borders does not advocate for self determination. War might not either, but the Ukraine isn't going to give up that land peacefully
  - rectang 5y ago
    First, it's not exactly clear that those ethnic Russian regions wish to be ruled by the Russian state. Second, Russia is in the midst of a full-blown invasion of all of Ukraine, and Putin has claimed that all Ukrainians are in fact Russians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Historical_Unity_of_Russians_and_Ukrainians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Historical_Unity_of_Rus...
systemvoltage 5y ago
Al-Queda attacked New York city unprovoked. Not an invasion and not defending US, just that it was not American expansionism that led to invasion of Afghanistan. US has no interest in imperialism.
- freeflight 5y ago
  > just that it was not American expansionism that led to invasion of Afghanistan US presence, aka expansionism in the MENA region, was very much the declared motivator for AQ and OBL. Thus the demands were also to pull US troops out of these countries, those demands already existed before 9/11.
  - systemvoltage 5y ago
    > US presence, aka expansionism Not to dig into this too much, but what I meant was that US wasn't there to permanently make Afghanistan a territory of USA.
    - freeflight 5y ago
      The US rather prefers to vassalize countries instead of straight up annexing as it used to, like with Hawaii or Texas. Already got enough states trying to take care of and some territories existing in weird places, so I doubt there is much incentive to add even more of that, except maybe Cuba.
woadwarrior01 5y ago
And were the Taliban, a democratically elected regime? Granted, they were (are?) less corrupt that the government that the US had installed, but they don't represent the interests of the people of Afghanistan, either.

VictorPath 5y ago