3 ms·

We have control over the human culture right? In unison we can make a difference?

by fumar 5y ago

randallsquared 5y ago
Basically, we do not.
endgame 5y ago
The problem is you're fighting uphill against individually-rational behaviour. If you keep your word while everyone around you breaks theirs, you will feel like a sucker while they get ahead. Most people will think "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" after a few rounds of this. But being known as an honest man is great. I remember reading an article years ago (my search-fu fails me, sorry) about a guy who stopped lying about everything, even little white lies. He did this first as a result of losing a bet, but later found that he really enjoyed the trust people put in his words and decided to keep going. OTOH, if you are known as someone whose word is his bond, that is unfortunately an exploitable vulnerability. It is not clear to me how you rebuild this norm at a societal level.
- mysticllama 5y ago
  there is an essay on this (available as a book) by sam harris that i really enjoyed; it changed my perspective on lying/the truth. since, i have decided to abandon even "white lies" and i find it very freeing. in the long trail i think it makes life a lot simpler, even if situations arise where you feel as though you need to "spare someone's feelings," i've found that they're navigable in a considerate way that doesn't necessitate dishonesty. https://www.samharris.org/books/lying https://www.samharris.org/books/lying
  - quantified 5y ago
    Social techniques like that should be taught in schools.
- FractalHQ 5y ago
  As someone who has adopted a 0 tolerance policy for lying as a core principle, I’ve accepted that people will take advantage of my trust and that I will suffer because of it. Even if it only makes a small difference, I think it’s worth it. If anything, I hope it at least inspires my daughter.
watwut 5y ago
The difference requires that you actually believe that supernatural will punish you and your family if you break that oath. Which has also other consequences - like your family being motivated to be very controlling over what they allow you to say or do in the fear it will have consequences on them. Other consequence is assumption that if bad things (sickness, injury, fire, ...) happen, it is punishment for what X had done or not done. This leads to revenge toward other humans for unrelated sicknesses, injuries, fires, ... .

We have control over the human culture right? In unison we can make a difference?

by fumar 5y ago

We have control over the human culture right? In unison we can make a difference?

randallsquared 5y ago

Basically, we do not.

endgame 5y ago

The problem is you're fighting uphill against individually-rational behaviour. If you keep your word while everyone around you breaks theirs, you will feel like a sucker while they get ahead. Most people will think "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" after a few rounds of this. But being known as an honest man is great. I remember reading an article years ago (my search-fu fails me, sorry) about a guy who stopped lying about everything, even little white lies. He did this first as a result of losing a bet, but later found that he really enjoyed the trust people put in his words and decided to keep going. OTOH, if you are known as someone whose word is his bond, that is unfortunately an exploitable vulnerability. It is not clear to me how you rebuild this norm at a societal level.

mysticllama 5y ago
there is an essay on this (available as a book) by sam harris that i really enjoyed; it changed my perspective on lying/the truth. since, i have decided to abandon even "white lies" and i find it very freeing. in the long trail i think it makes life a lot simpler, even if situations arise where you feel as though you need to "spare someone's feelings," i've found that they're navigable in a considerate way that doesn't necessitate dishonesty. https://www.samharris.org/books/lying https://www.samharris.org/books/lying
- quantified 5y ago
  Social techniques like that should be taught in schools.
FractalHQ 5y ago
As someone who has adopted a 0 tolerance policy for lying as a core principle, I’ve accepted that people will take advantage of my trust and that I will suffer because of it. Even if it only makes a small difference, I think it’s worth it. If anything, I hope it at least inspires my daughter.

watwut 5y ago

The difference requires that you actually believe that supernatural will punish you and your family if you break that oath. Which has also other consequences - like your family being motivated to be very controlling over what they allow you to say or do in the fear it will have consequences on them. Other consequence is assumption that if bad things (sickness, injury, fire, ...) happen, it is punishment for what X had done or not done. This leads to revenge toward other humans for unrelated sicknesses, injuries, fires, ... .