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I did a PhD at a top-20 school. When I first heard this reality, it was too late. I do think this is true and I do believe most grad students with professorial

I did a PhD at a top-20 school. When I first heard this reality, it was too late. I do think this is true and I do believe most grad students with professorial ambitions do not know about this fact. I also graduated around the 2008 financial crisis. The grads from MIT (and other elites) were scared about getting jobs, and applied to schools way below their "station". The geniuses at said departments didn't interview non-elites and focused on trying to recruit the prestigious candidates. End result was that the elite students didn't accept these lesser offers (duh!) and about 2-3 cycles of non-elite but strong grads were not able to get academic positions (or had to suffer the pain of post-docs). Academia is just such a stupid system.

bachmeier 5y ago
The financial crisis had a different effect on the market for macroeconomists. The Federal Reserve was hiring so many macroeconomists (due to increased workloads) that it became difficult for some schools to hire anyone for their positions.
mabub24 5y ago
This was why I decided to not go for my PhD. I looked at the latest hires for tenure track positions from my graduating year and saw that essentially all of them came from the same 6 "top tier" schools for my program/field of study. That meant I had to get into those schools if I wanted to end up a professor. Then I looked at the incoming class of PhD candidates for those schools from that year. They all also came from those 6 schools. It was especially disappointing when I found incredible research being done in "less elite schools", which I was explicitly told to not apply to or "I would have no chance getting to tenure track interviews." But, guess where those professors at those "less elite schools" came from? Those same 6 schools! It was absurd. At my own B-tier undergrad school, which I went to because it was affordable and offered me a lot in scholarships, all of the new hires were also from those schools. The whole system was absurd.
hpcjoe 5y ago
My Ph.D. wasn't from a top 20 school. But my thesis advisor was a student of a well known Nobel Laureate (he won the prize while she was his student). I'd noticed this trend in faculty back in my undergrad days, when looking at grad schools to attend. Things working against me when I was finishing up (early-mid 90s), included being at a lower tier school, the massive overproduction of Ph.D.s in physics, combined with reducing NSF and related budgets, and the fall of the USSR, which resulted in extremely senior faculty decamping from Russia and taking every possible post in the west. This was the time of the Young Scientists Network in the late 80s through mid 90s. Many other soon to be and freshly minted Ph.D.s learned of interminable post-docs, getting your first tenure track when you turned 40 or so, and not getting a tenure decision until you were 48 or so. I skipped the post doc, and went into industry. Means I didn't get to do much science (occasional collaborations here and there). But I was able to support a family. That latter part was more important to me than anything. As my daughter shortly decamps for grad school, we are telling her how it really is, and what to expect. My simple guide for her was do what you love, but have a realistic plan to be able to support yourself at the end of the process. No one ever said that the system is fair. It isn't. But then, neither is life.

bachmeier 5y ago

The financial crisis had a different effect on the market for macroeconomists. The Federal Reserve was hiring so many macroeconomists (due to increased workloads) that it became difficult for some schools to hire anyone for their positions.

mabub24 5y ago

This was why I decided to not go for my PhD. I looked at the latest hires for tenure track positions from my graduating year and saw that essentially all of them came from the same 6 "top tier" schools for my program/field of study. That meant I had to get into those schools if I wanted to end up a professor. Then I looked at the incoming class of PhD candidates for those schools from that year. They all also came from those 6 schools. It was especially disappointing when I found incredible research being done in "less elite schools", which I was explicitly told to not apply to or "I would have no chance getting to tenure track interviews." But, guess where those professors at those "less elite schools" came from? Those same 6 schools! It was absurd. At my own B-tier undergrad school, which I went to because it was affordable and offered me a lot in scholarships, all of the new hires were also from those schools. The whole system was absurd.

hpcjoe 5y ago

My Ph.D. wasn't from a top 20 school. But my thesis advisor was a student of a well known Nobel Laureate (he won the prize while she was his student). I'd noticed this trend in faculty back in my undergrad days, when looking at grad schools to attend. Things working against me when I was finishing up (early-mid 90s), included being at a lower tier school, the massive overproduction of Ph.D.s in physics, combined with reducing NSF and related budgets, and the fall of the USSR, which resulted in extremely senior faculty decamping from Russia and taking every possible post in the west. This was the time of the Young Scientists Network in the late 80s through mid 90s. Many other soon to be and freshly minted Ph.D.s learned of interminable post-docs, getting your first tenure track when you turned 40 or so, and not getting a tenure decision until you were 48 or so. I skipped the post doc, and went into industry. Means I didn't get to do much science (occasional collaborations here and there). But I was able to support a family. That latter part was more important to me than anything. As my daughter shortly decamps for grad school, we are telling her how it really is, and what to expect. My simple guide for her was do what you love, but have a realistic plan to be able to support yourself at the end of the process. No one ever said that the system is fair. It isn't. But then, neither is life.